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The Forum > Article Comments > It's not a bad place > Comments

It's not a bad place : Comments

By Alan Austin, published 15/2/2012

France is not a bad place to live, but is it paradise?

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Well, to say the least, an uninformative contribution by an Australian freelance journalist based in the South of France.
Every thing about running a freelance journalistic endeavour from Nimes attempting to compare Melbourne journalistic culture with Nimes.
Absolutely nothing(or very little) about the French culture, the French way of life, comparable cost of living,the beauty of the South France countryside compared with Victoria.
The South of France wine scene is world noted for the excellent quality of its cheaper priced wines compared to the normal Australian product, yet the auther disparagingly downgrades the French wines compared to Australian wines.
In my opinion(not a journo) a poor article.
Posted by Jack from Bicton, Wednesday, 15 February 2012 7:44:27 PM
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Thanks for the feedback, Jack. No, wasn’t comparing general life here in the South with life in Australia, except superficially as an intro. That wasn’t the brief.

But happy to do so. If you wish, we can ask the chief editor for another 900 words.

You are absolutely right about the wines, Jack. Bandol and Châteauneuf-du-Pape are nearby. Among the best in the world. At incredibly low prices.

So, no, haven’t done any disparaging. Just miss the McLaren Vale Shiraz fruit bombs, that’s all. The French don’t do as much Shiraz as Downunder, as you know. But have recently discovered some excellent ones at Sommieres.

On the French countryside, absolutely! Have just spent a few days in the Cevennes. Just incredibly beautiful. Have you been there, Jack?
But would suggest this is an area of similarity between Victoria and the South of France rather than one where either has the edge.

Cheers. AA
Posted by Alan Austin, Thursday, 16 February 2012 6:51:09 AM
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Alan,

Just a couple of minor points.

The first apropos this comment:
<<Unfortunately Australia's political process is less well served by the commentariat than in Europe and elsewhere. News reporting is characterised by levels of inaccuracy, sensationalism and sometimes just plain fabrication unknown outside Australia>>

Unfortunately it seems being outside Australia does not preserve one against inaccuracy.

You direct criticism at the media for describing the Tent Embassy *happening* as violent:
<<It was then the violence broke out." No, it didn't.>>

But the origin of the descriptor “violence” appears to have been Ms Gillard.
Here’s the Herald Sun quoting Ms Gillard:
<<What I utterly condemn is when protests turn violent the way we saw the violence (on Thursday), and particularly disrupting an event which was to honour some extraordinary Australians," she said.>>
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/pm-staffer-forced-to-quit-over-leak/story-fn7x8me2-1226255738200

And (closer to your heart) here it is again from the ABC:
"What I utterly condemn is when protests turn violent, the way we saw the violence yesterday, and particularly disrupting an event which was to honour some extraordinary Australians, did leave me very angry," she said.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-01-27/protesters-march-on-parliament-house/3796988

It might have been more accurate to have directed your criticism at its origin, rather that the messenger.

Secondly, you describe Ms Gillard’s expression as a grin:
<<"A moment of terror captured here on Julia Gillard's face." No. She was grinning.>>

But I can’t see a grin on her face, except prior to the *happening*.

This is a grin:
http://tinyurl.com/76hocce

This is a grin:
http://tinyurl.com/852feuz
(we’ll be seeing a lot more of that grin soon I posit!)

But this is definitely NOT a grin:
http://tinyurl.com/77stx4h

Perhaps I need a glass or two of those French wines you’ve been imbibing before I see it your way!

Cheers
SPQR
Posted by SPQR, Thursday, 16 February 2012 9:27:14 AM
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Is there a conspiracy in the undergrowth, who cares. Lets get on with running the country. We need the coalition to learn the word economy, that is missing from their vocabulary. And buy a calculator for Joe.
Posted by 579, Thursday, 16 February 2012 9:56:25 AM
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hi Alain (hehe)

Hope you put your hosts right about that very aggressive protest in Canberra.

The truth, being shown on tv here, in a video taken by the demonstrators, shows the protest being instigated by a member of our PM's staff who gave, to a union urger, misleading info and directions to the restaurant and was inflamed by the union urger who informed the organisers of the fabricated information.

The video shows the explanations given by both our PM and the Union urger in the days after the protest arelies.

There's no mention of the new video in any of our media today.

In Europe such antic's and blatant lying by a PM would be headlined.

Someone is also feeding the media here with all the sordid details of the PM's Coup.

It seems, if the leaks are to be believed, the PM had acted at least 2 weeks prior to despatching Kevvy. Anyway again the media isn't acting in our interests and focusing on the issues of today. It seems intent on destabilising the PM and rehashing history.

Oh and one of those issues that has made the front page of the Australian(Small headline bittom corner) is ... that the Technology used in the very first roll out of the NBN in Tasmanian is already obsolete and is apparently incapable of providing for USE OF the latest internet speeds.

The Government has repealled the 30% Private Medical Insurance Rebate. There reason it stops the rich from being subsidised by the not so rich (Described as poor). However it is unspoken in our media that the Government intends to use the 2.5 billion recouped to ensure it has a (Promised) budget surplus.

It is also unspoken in our media about whether there has been a study undertaken as to whether the removal of the rebate will result in more people taking up Private Insurance or in more people abandoning such and return to the public system.

I agree we in Australis are terribly served by 'our' media.

I wish they would all go overseas and just leave us alone.
Posted by imajulianutter, Thursday, 16 February 2012 10:01:49 AM
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Alan my only knowledge of France is one drive through it, trying to get to somewhere nicer & definitely warmer, & what I see watching the Tour de France.

In the latter I see a bunch of people going mad over a few bike riders, who would be mostly ignored if they wanted to ride around Oz.

I see them peddling away through miles of empty country side, then through those dreadful picturesque villages.

Yes they are picturesque, but picturesque belongs in pictures on the top of biscuit tins, & who would want to live in a biscuit tin. Living in a home, where one long step out of the front door has you under a bus or a bicycle must be soul destroying.

I firmly believe it is those dreadful villages that make French farmers so militant. It is the anger at their living conditions coming out of course. It probably also explains their strange behaviour of eating in the street.

Personally I would rather eat at home, than with the exhausts of diesel buses, but then I don't have to live in those French houses. If I did, I would probably want to get out of the place too.

Just thinking of all that, I can see why your political views are so wrong headed, & perhaps why you can't talk about France without expressing them. Never mind, we will forgive you, & hope you get well soon.
Posted by Hasbeen, Thursday, 16 February 2012 11:35:03 AM
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Hasbeen,

"....picturesque belongs in pictures on the top of biscuit tins..."

Spoken like a true Aussie philistine.

"...& who would want to live in a biscuit tin...."

Sounds like you do,
Posted by Poirot, Thursday, 16 February 2012 12:08:15 PM
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Poirot, just because some horrible village was a suitable defensive form for vulnerable people in the middle ages, does not qualify it as quality housing today.

Tongue out of check. If the damn fools want to live that way, good on them, but most of us would hate after a few days.
Posted by Hasbeen, Thursday, 16 February 2012 12:46:17 PM
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Alan, if you think Australian journalism is poor quality why don't you set a good example?

People in glass houses ....
Posted by DavidL, Thursday, 16 February 2012 1:18:14 PM
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Interesting discussion. Thank you all.

Good questions, SPQR. On the violence, are you sure the PM had seen all the footage we have now seen when she made those comments. Sure, she was told there was violence, and clearly believed what she was told. But do you believe that was violence? In none of the footage available on line was there anywhere a punch or a slap or even a push. Except by the police. Yes, there was a lot of shouting and finger ponting. But is that what we call violence these days?

On the grin, SPQR, I actually changed the draft from grin to smile and back again a few times. Because I could not find the right word for it. No, the two other pics you have posted are broad grins – as opposed to grins of the wry, embarrassed, determined, approving, sneaky or other kind. Maybe smile would have been better. But terror?!

On this, did you see this report?
http://indymedia.org.au/2012/01/29/a-put-up-job-that-boomeranged

Agree with most of your observations, Imajulianutter. But would be a bit cautious believing anything The Australian writes about the NBN. It was found guilty by the Press Council last year of fabricating data – three times. The Council expressed concern that “within a short period of time three articles on the same theme contained inaccurate or misleading assertions.”

Hasbeen and Poirot, you raise a fascinating topic re housing. Yes, the villages are picturesque, but challenging for contemporary lifestyles. But in the larger cities you will find the French do medium density housing pretty well – functional, durable and really extraordinarily attractive.

Cheers, AA.
Posted by Alan Austin, Thursday, 16 February 2012 6:35:17 PM
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Alan

http://www.zdnet.com.au/telstra-nbn-showdown-over-tassie-devices-339331743.htm

Our PM tells us lies.

That's endemic in Labor .

Where has Labor lost it?

I can only come to this conclusion.

I grew up in a labor home.(Albiet my mum was liberal and never voted. She hated the conservatives as much as she despised the socialists.) My dad was labor through and through as were both my Granddads.

In my forties my Dad and I became great mates and one day I asked him how granddad would regard me since I operated a business, employed people, made profits and voted liberal.

His response astonished me.

'Keith', he said 'your Granddad would be as proud of you as I am.' Dad, Graddad and ally to my kids continued, 'Dad became involved in the Labour movement for the same reason most of his mates did. He wanted to see his family rise above the mire and dispeciable conditions of the working class. You've done that.'

Now a couple of the truths I was taugh by both parents were: Always be true to yourself and you cannot serve two masters.

Today most of the Labor Party politicians and operatives, Neo-Labor, have achieved the aims of their grandparents. Most of them haven't yet learned that they cannot serve two masters ie. be true to themselves and to represent those who share the aims of my grandparents.

It seems to me many of those neo-labor people don't need to struggle to get their families out of the mire and conditions of the working class. In thinking they can share the values of or truely represent working class people they are dishonest with themselves and quite obviously now honesty is the central issue with the Labor Party.

These neo-labors should stand aside and allow real working class people to represent themselves. The neo-labors should show belief in those people instead of attempting to keep them in the working class state simply to provide themselves with an ongoing constituancy.
ie these neo-labors are intent on keeping working class people working class people ... and poor.

Everyone sees it but cannot yet enunciate it.

regards
Posted by imajulianutter, Friday, 17 February 2012 12:59:14 PM
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Hi again Keith,

Agree with much of your last post. Especially your father’s observations.

And certainly agree with your critique of the ALP. You affirm the findings of the 2010 official review of the party by Bracks, Faulkner and Carr. Ended up in the shredder, tragically.

But would you agree both sides of Australian politics have been hijacked by party apparatchiks? It seems so.

Don’t yet agree with you that "Our PM tells us lies" or that "That's endemic in Labor". The evidence seems to suggest this particular failing is more one of the Coalition than of Labor. Though I accept the popular perception is the other way around.

But open to persuasion based on evidence. On other OLO threads I have asked for examples of a Labor politician telling a direct lie to the nation, like this one satirised here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvYzLIywCiA

Or this one, from a few years ago:

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2003/s933534.htm

So far, none have been forthcoming. (My definition of a direct lie is a false statements made knowingly, excluding – because of their peculiar character – comments about leadership challenges and climate science.)

Happy to revise my opinion as instances arise.

Cheers, AA.
Posted by Alan Austin, Friday, 17 February 2012 9:46:26 PM
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How long have you been away Alan? It must be at least 5 years for you to make this statement,
"Don’t yet agree with you that "Our PM tells us lies" or that "That's endemic in Labor". The evidence seems to suggest this particular failing is more one of the Coalition than of Labor. Though I accept the popular perception is the other way around".

Perhaps you need to be here to see, just how bad it is. At the moment if she opens her mouth she is lying, again.
Posted by Hasbeen, Friday, 17 February 2012 10:45:24 PM
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Hello again Hasbeen,

Yes, I entirely agree that it is the popular perception in Australia that Labor has this problem of telling lies.

But there is no real evidence for this, is there?

Whenever I request examples of blatant lies, I am offered switches in policy, or broken promises. Three difficulties for you here:

First, these are only direct lies if the promiser intended not to keep the promise at the time it was made.

Second, in many cases - on both sides of politics - promises cannot be kept due to intervening circumstances.

And third, broken promises have been numerically far greater on the conservative side of Australian politics than on the reformist side.

Have you counted them, Hasbeen?

As an exercise, how about we count the statements of intent now abandonned by both Julia Gillard and Tony Abbott?

Or compare abandonned promises by Paul Keating and John Howard? Or Malcolm Fraser and Gough Whitlam? Or Wayne Swan and Peter Costello? Take your pick.

As always, I am completely open to revising my view if contrary evidence is presented.

Incidentally, I was in Australia last year for all of January, most of July and all of August. So not that out of touch.

Cheers, AA.
Posted by Alan Austin, Friday, 17 February 2012 11:14:55 PM
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Haven't you heard the last one Alan.

The ABC, who are promoting KRudd, for a chalange, have found she had a victory speech, [for when she got Rudd's job] written 3 weeks before she challenged him, "on the spur of the moment", as she reckoned. I don't know if she believes it, but if the ABC doesn't believe everything coming out of labor they have finally caught up with the world.

Then it appears the challenge had been conveyed to that fool Clinton woman, & cleared with Obama, before it happened spontaneously.

Mate, if you can't see she is evading telling anything like the truth, when ever she speaks, you don't have the qualifications for a journalist.

Same thing, if you don't feel dirty & slimy, after listening to Rudd, again try another profession, one requiring less perception.
Posted by Hasbeen, Saturday, 18 February 2012 12:40:23 AM
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Hello again Hasbeen,

Yes, well aware of all the claims and counter-claims about the leadership challenge.

This is an area of deceit and duplicity which seems inbuilt into every party in every Westminster democracy everywhere in the world. It would be wonderful if this were not the case, but it seems an inherent structural flaw.

Hence my specific definition of a direct lie, earlier: "a false statements made knowingly, excluding – because of their peculiar character – comments about leadership challenges and climate science."

And again, if you do want to examine and compare conversations about loyalty to party leaders, the comparison is much more favourable to Labor than to the Liberals.

You may remember this historic exchange:

http://australianpolitics.com/1987/03/23/kennett-peacock-car-phone-conversation.html

Anyway, Hasbeen, how did you go finding examples of Labor politicians telling direct lies to the nation, like the two linked above from Tony Abbott?

Anyone?

Cheers, AA.
Posted by Alan Austin, Saturday, 18 February 2012 1:25:29 AM
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Alan,

of course Gillard and Rudd don't tell lies. It's only a perception, most of us hold, they tell lies.

Regardless the same perception has never been help by so many for so long about any other politicians from the conservative side of politics. (The members for New England and Lynne excepted)

I think NSW and Vic Labor had the same perception, as does Qld Labor.

It is why they all still rate so poorly in the polls and have so little representation after the latest elections.

The perception has arisen because they have disappointed so many people, won't admit they have, and spin to justify their failings. Sure not lying but try and tell people here that and they'll just see you as another raving loony lying labor leftie.

I don't see how you can change peoples perception by saying 'they aren't liars'. You and Labor will need to come up with something a damn sight more fair dinkim than that.

Try starting by getting them to actually do what they said they'll do.

eg. 'be fiscially conservztive'
'protect our borders'
'introduce no carbon tax'
'improve our health care and reduce hospital waiting times'
'watch petrol prices'
'watch grocery prices'
'not scrap the medicare insurance rebate'
'protect the whales'

etc etc etc
Posted by imajulianutter, Saturday, 18 February 2012 10:52:27 AM
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Hi Alan,

'You affirm the findings of the 2010 official review of the party by Bracks, Faulkner and Carr.'

Really? That astonishes me. I truely would, without malice or furtive motive, love to read the report. Can we find it online somewhere?

Often I've found my 'enemies'/ competitors have, sometimes knowingly, somtimes unknowingly, supplied me with perspective I would not otherwise have considered.

I'm warming to you ... not your views.

regards keith

ps respect always works wonders.
Posted by imajulianutter, Saturday, 18 February 2012 7:54:14 PM
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Hi Keith,

Once again, we are not disagreeing about much.

Regarding fiscal conservatism and prices, economists believe economic management is where Rudd/Gillard/Swan are best in the world – according to the ten key indicators.

So including these in a discussion on lies is perhaps a category error.

Regarding categories, I have asked here and elsewhere for examples of Labor leaders delivering straightforward, direct, looking-down-the-camera falsehoods like those, linked above, from Mr Abbott. None forthcoming.

If we call these class A falsehoods, we could characterise all other truth issues by class.

Promises broken for political expediency with no external factors forcing their abandonment could be class B. Examples are Ms Gillard dudding Mr Wilkie recently. And Mr Howard’s no-GST-never-ever which he abandoned before the 1998 election.

A class B broken promise may, of course, be ratified by an election. If this succeeds, as indeed happened with Mr Howard and the GST, then it becomes less offensive. Say class C.

Commitments made in good faith but prevented from being implemented despite the government’s genuine best efforts – by a hostile Senate or the High Court or a hung Parliament – could be class D.

Promises prevented from being implemented by changed economic conditions – such as Paul Keating’s L-A-W-law tax cuts – could be class E.

Promises deferred by changed economic or political conditions – such as Labor’s no carbon tax – could be class F. (Keating’s L-A-W tax cuts also turned out to be F eventually.)

Assurances of loyalty to the leader by putative challengers, as suggested earlier, deserve a special category. Say class I. (I for inevitable? Inavoidable?)

Now, here’s the extraordinary thing. When we count these for all past party leaders, we find the ALP has far lower numbers than the Liberals. And among Labor leaders, Ms Gillard’s numbers are lowest of all.

So why the current bizarre false perception Downunder?

Well, It’s not really that hard to figure. As suggested in the article, the mainstream media routinely distorts, misprepresents and fabricates.

This, it seems, is Australia’s doom for as long as its citizens do nothing to change this.
Posted by Alan Austin, Saturday, 18 February 2012 8:12:32 PM
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Alan

If you want to change the widespread perceptionn of Labor as dishonest, once again you won't do it by saying, 'labor isn't as bad as all the others have been' and 'it's all the media's fault'. Again here in Australia you'll be laughed at. They are akin to Labor's strategy of 'blame Tony for everything'. That strategy is now starting to backfire badly. Abbott's hit the front in the preferred PM ratings.

The latest two party prefered for the upcoming Qld election was released today. 60% to 40%. Labor's primary 30%. Some predict less than a dozen Labor MPs in Qld. Kevvy is campaigning hard here. Julia's noticable by her absence. I reckon she is away clinging onto power somewhere.

Yes we disagree about little. One of our key but unspoken differences is that you believe all politicians lie, I don't and nor do the majority of Australian electors. The relatively smallish informal vote attests to that. I also only ever hear labor figures or sympathisers run that line as well. It's just another strategy to try to minimse and sanitise the widespread perception of Labor deceipt. Like the other attempts, which you've repeated here, it justs adds to the perception, as it's just seen as another attempt at spin.
Posted by imajulianutter, Sunday, 19 February 2012 9:52:14 AM
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Sorry, Labor's primary ... 24%.
Posted by imajulianutter, Sunday, 19 February 2012 6:18:03 PM
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Has anyone noticed that Anna, is starting to sound as shrill, & viscous as Julia as her election approaches? I think it is starting to hurt her, as she looks a bit like Julia

I have never thought of her as competent, particularly after the health care pay chaos, but always thought her as one of our more decent politicians. She is certainly making sure I correct that misconception with her present behaviour.

It appears nothing is too low for for a Labor polly where holding on to power is concerned.
Posted by Hasbeen, Sunday, 19 February 2012 7:28:43 PM
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Hi again Keith,

Further info on the ALP review here:
http://www.alp.org.au/getattachment/3cf99afc-d393-4be3-b33c-7afbd6235ccc/review2010/

Or just google ALP 2010 review.

No, not true at all to say “One of our key but unspoken differences is that you believe all politicians lie ...”

I don’t believe that at all. I have never heard a direct lie from Tim Fischer, Julia Gillard, Malcolm Turnbull, Bob Brown, Kevin Rudd or Warren Truss, to name just six past or present party leaders.

Yes, a few changes of position and unfulfilled promises from all of them, except Bob Brown. But not direct class A lies like those from Tony Abbott linked earlier, or from John Howard, for whom many examples are available. Remember, it was a Senator from his own side who labelled Mr Howard “the Lying Rodent”.

It is not at all objectively true to say all politicians lie. Howard and Abbott seem to be in a special class of their own, as demonstrated clearly for Mr Abbott here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc5ljcri6Nk

Nothing at all unspoken about my views on lying. See above.

The popularity polls are not really relevant to this discussion, are they? The latest job numbers are. They have much greater impact on the wellbeing of Australian people. I wonder if they got the same media attention?

Cheers, AA
Posted by Alan Austin, Monday, 20 February 2012 11:28:12 AM
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Alan tell me where I can get some of those glasses mate, it must be heaven wearing them.

Mate I don't give a dam if you call them a direct lie, or inferred lie, or just not answering the question, It is Labor who are the experts. Even Richo says so.

Just what is, "there will be no carbon tax in a government I lead" sound like if not a lie.

Hang on, perhaps I've got it. She's done no leading, Bob Brown has done it all. Does that make it less of a lie.

If you can rationalise that one it makes you not a commentator, but an activists.
Posted by Hasbeen, Monday, 20 February 2012 12:13:54 PM
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Hello Hasbeen,

No, no problem with the glasses. I just see things differently - mostly because I don't believe Australia's news until corroborated.

The position explained above still seems rational and fair. You haven’t really offered anything to challenge it, have you?

The promise “no carbon tax under the government I lead” is only a class A lie if Ms Gillard never intended to honour it. No evidence for this.

Therefore it becomes one of history’s countless promises made in good faith, but broken due to external forces – hostile Senate, court ruling or hung Parliament – class D. (See above for other classes.)

In this case, it was the inevitable result of the motley crew of independents, Greens and Labor the nation voted for in 2010. Do you remember, Hasbeen, that cliffhanger election and the potential constitutional crisis? Exciting times. It was clear on day one of the horse-trading that neither Mr Abbott nor Ms Gillard would be able to implement all promises.

Do you remember Tony Windsor saying that Tony Abbott promised the independents everything they asked for? Abbott told Windsor, "the only thing I wouldn't do is sell my arse - but I'd have to give serious thought to it".

Actually, on the carbon tax, Ms Gillard says she still wants to implement the ALP’s preferred cap and trade system. If she succeeds with this after the next election then it becomes a class F misdemeanour only.

Still a misdemeanour. But not an outright falsehood like those from My Abbott and Mr Howard, is it?

So the questions remain for you, Hasbeen:

1. What was the intervening issue or event that caused John Howard in the run-up to the 1998 election to abandon his earlier promise, “no GST, never, ever”?

2. Can you find just one example of an outright lie – a false statement made knowingly – from Julia Gillard equivalent to that of Tony Abbott when he said he “couldn’t recall” a meeting the week before with the Cardinal? [excluding the leadership challenge two-step and matters of genuine opinion such as climate science.]

Cheers, AA
Posted by Alan Austin, Monday, 20 February 2012 9:49:55 PM
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Alan,

Did you understand the significance of the 24% labor primary vote?

Qld has optional preferential voting. And Beattie, when we had a Liberal Party and a National Party years ago, contrived the slogan and convinced Qlders to 'Just vote one'.

Be intertesting to see how that bites labor sur le derriere.
Posted by imajulianutter, Tuesday, 21 February 2012 9:39:18 AM
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Pretty sure I understand the 24%, Keith. There was a time when the Liberals under John Howard were at 12%. So are you saying Ms Gillard is twice the leader Mr Howard was?

Do you understand the significance of the job numbers, Keith? Do you know what they are? Do you know what the unemplyment level would be if Australia didn't need to import so many guest workers as a result of no job training schemes from 1996 to 2007?

Cheers, AA.
Posted by Alan Austin, Tuesday, 21 February 2012 10:13:32 AM
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