"Is the Ellis defence moral?". The Ellis Defence is immoral, unethical, unrighteous. It is a disgrace to those who work faithfully, compassionately and well, representing a faith they believe to be built on virtue. It is a shabby, unworthy ploy of those who developed it, including that Prince of the Church, Cardinal Pell. It is a sleazy attempt to save a few hundred thousand dollars of those permanently immovable assets of stone, brick, mortar, gold, silver and art which will never be sold to save lives or souls. It is the biblical millstone which should be hung about a few sinful necks. It is, indeed, another reason why so many of us live entirely without guilt after our decision to walk away from the 'Holy Roman and Catholic Church'.

It is a sad indictment on what the Church has become, that a blatant manipulation of corporate law allows it to worm its way out of its responsibilities to the community it professes to serve.

Its closest relative is surely the actions of mafiosi, ever careful to put a legitimate front to all their businesses, while operating a massive network of criminal activities. And all the while protesting that "there's no such organization as the Mafia".

If that is an unfair analogy, I'd like to know on what basis it fails.

One also has to grudgingly admire the watertight, all-pervading cynicism with which they conduct their defence.

It would make an excellent screenplay, along "Underbelly" lines.

"Your Venerableness, some of our priests have been naughty again."

"What do you mean "our" priests? How can we be responsible for the actions of a few, sad people who purport to work under our banner? Isn't that why we set up these untouchable Trusts?"

"Ah yes, your Cardinality, of course. Plausible deniability. It works every time for the CIA..."

Very sad to see the Catholic church slide to such moral degradation. Does the scouts get sued when their master abuse kids or the State Government when their teachers fiddle with kids or the Tennis association get sued when one of the coaches? What about pianno players and scientist? Hopefully the Catholic church will vet their recruiting process a lot closer now although unfortunatley the human rights advocates would call that discrimination. Unfortunatley with the porn industry making millions child abuse will continue to sky rocket. No doubt they won't be sued and be the first to demand churches are sued.

NSW continues to be the centre of Theatre of the Religious Absurd(ity.) "The Ellis Defence" is a beaut. Should be put on every website and on TV.

What about the contract the people of southern Queensland and northern NSW that are flooded long after contracts made in the pre-flood years have been broken time and time again? How do the priests in churches there keep asking the good catholics or anyone else to pray to God to protect their homes and farms? Whatever ye shall ask in my name I will do was a contracted obligation was it not?
They once prayed for water to break their drought and God gave them more than they wanted. He must be cynical and malicious god, I reckon.

Rob

socrotease

'They once prayed for water to break their drought and God gave them more than they wanted. He must be cynical and malicious god, I reckon.'

No just I would say He laughed making a mockery of those who said it was not likely to rain again just like those who said it would not snow again in Europe. Somehow I think He must have a sense of humour listening to the silly reasoning of humans.

The Ellis Defence" as stupid as it is is not the worst.
Reflect on other such "contracts" that are just as absurd but are far worse and with far reaching consequences.
The Old Testament tells us about a Three thousand + year old contract that God made with the Jews. He would make them the Chosen People if they loved him and did what he commanded. He would give them all the land that is today called Palestine. It was a reward called the Promised Land. Look at the heart ache and genocidal practices that it has led to.
Then there are those whose contract is to ceate the Third Caliphate ....and you could go on and on at these "defences" for bloody-minded brutal people. When and where will it stop?
Too many suffer because of such delusions.

socratease

What is the point of praying to a God, who never answers. Wake up people and get in the real world where there is no such thing as a God, Fairy or Father Christmas, all man made writings at some point in time, perhaps we should all don white robes or purple ones with funny hats which then places us well and truly above the law, especially where vunerable young boys and adolescents are easy prey to the lecherous priests in the Catholic Church, but then let us pray and all will be forgiven.

That's an interesting defence, runner.

>>Does the scouts get sued when their master abuse kids or the State Government when their teachers fiddle with kids or the Tennis association get sued when one of the coaches? What about pianno players and scientist?<<

As I understand it, you are comparing the Catholic Church with i) the Scout movement, ii) the State Government, iii) the Tennis Association, iv) piano players (eh?) and v) scientists (what?), and suggesting that each of these bodies should bear responsibility for the actions of their members.

Do any of these groupings, apart from the Catholic Church, claim to have God's authority when dealing with their clientele? Or are you suggesting that Barry O'Farrell holds the same role in teacher management practices as the Pope has over his priesthood?

Clearly, you haven't done a great deal of research into the manner in which those errant priests convince their young charges to do their bidding. They invariably invoke God as their permission, sometimes even the instigation, for their deeds. Do you imagine that a tennis coach would invoke the image of the President of the Association as justification for their actions?

Get real.

"Unfortunatley with the porn industry making millions child abuse will continue to sky rocket" - runner it seems to me that most of the clergy from times past who have abused children had very little access to porn. More likely they've been filling their non-abusing time with reading the bible and praying. Should we be blaming bible reading and prayer for their choices?

If the catholic church does not exist then perhaps the income from all those properties held in trust should be diverted to ensuring that victims of abuse are adequately compensated. Should be some checks to ensure that market rates are being paid for the use of those assets as well.

Abuse of children within the Catholic church was not a one off, undetected incident, it's been a worldwide horror story routinely covered up and pushed under the carpet by it's senior leaders of the day.

As for scout's, governments etc being held responsible. If there is evidence that the organisations involved had failed in their duty along the way then they do become liable.

R0bert

Jesus must be spinning in his grave at the brazen hypocrisy…

And rather than having been thrown out – the money changers are now obviously running the 'temple'.

It will be interesting to see if the princes of the church, both in Australia and around the world react to the Pope's calls yesterday for profound renewal in the Roman Catholic Church by starting a reformation of the patently corrupt structures of their corporation – but since the same cohort are responsible for the current situation, it does make you wonder which and what type of Godfather is really in charge?

At least it'll be easier to judge our own legislators by their actions in redressing the legal and political situation that has permitted such a travesty.

So this is an example, runner, of Christian moral absolutism?

You silly billy, WmTrevor.

>>Jesus must be spinning in his grave...<<

He doesn't have one, remember? They rolled away the stone and there he was - gone.

It works as metaphor, though. I'm pretty sure he'd be appalled at almost everything that has been undertaken in his name by the many churches that claim his sponsorship. I don't recall that he ever advocated the extortion of money from poor congregations, for example, by a gilded-robed officer-class who lived in palaces. Nor indeed one single incident of kneecapping.

But hey, what do I know.

One encouraging feature of this topic is the absence of good Chriatians (Catholic,mainly) rushing to support the ellis excuse/defence.
There is hope for the world as yet

socratease

Thanks, Pericles – the Sunday school teacher/church elder me remembered, but the atheist me insisted on some exactitude when aiming for metaphor and half allusion with pike…

My wish is that socratease is right that "There is hope for the world as yet" but I'll wait and judge them by their actions.

I know you'll understand my saying I found some of your initial comments unfair…

about the mafiosi… Some organisations place a high value on concepts of honour.

You're welcome, WmTrevor.

On contemplating the manifold evils conducted in the name of religion, I wondered if by any chance there might be a Facebook page, "Kneecapping for Jesus".

It turns out that there is.

No wonder I couldn't find it. I was looking on the new (anti)social networking site for organised religion… TwoFacedbook.com

Of course its not moral. However not much that the roman catholic church does is. By the way didnt billy connelly and judy davis sucesfully sue god?