"There is no such moral excuse however, for John Howard’s abandonment of the ‘no GST never ever’ promise before the 1998 election, is there?"

Except that Howard took the tax to the electorate, there would have been no excuse if he'd said no GST then found he had a change of circumstances which let him implement it.

There is a big difference between taking a changed policy to the electorate and what Julia did with the carbon tax.

R0bert

AA,

You need to pick up a book on how democracy works. Howard didn't break any promise at all. He said would not introduce a GST but when he changed his policy he took it to the electorate FIRST. That is called honesty. That is called having integrity. That is called democracy.

Did you seriously ask if I can think of any lie by the Gillard government? Please, just crawl back under your rock.

So true RObert. Of course these people can lie to themselves almost as well as Julia can lie to us.

They can rationalise anything, no matter how blatant, given enough time.

Hi again Dane and Robert,

How democracy works is precisely what some of us are discussing here. This is important because political philosophy seems to be in a state of profound change in Australia, here in France and in many other places. The books are being rewritten as we speak.

One powerfully destructive factor today is the Murdoch media which in Australia, the UK and the US has pretty much succeeded in promulgating many myths. Some have become deeply embedded in popular perceptions. But are untrue nonetheless.

Mr Bagaric regurgitates several of these in his article here on OLO, which is why his contribution is so disappointing.

The issue of disposable promises, political pragmatism and outright lies is a fascinating subbranch of political science.

My observations (since the early 1970s) are that conservative parties and leaders in Australia and elsewhere are much more prone to misrepresentation, broken commitments and outright lies than reformist politicians and parties. (Although no party is completely free of them.) There are intriguing theories as to why this is so.

So three questions on the current issue remain:

1. What was the crucial intervening issue or event that caused John Howard in the run-up to the 1998 election to abandon his earlier promise: There will be no GST, never, ever?

2. What circumstances actually do justify abandoning earlier commitments?

3. Are there examples of direct outright lies – false statements made knowingly - from Julia Gillard equivalent to that of Tony Abbott when he said he “couldn’t recall” a meeting the week before with the Cardinal? [excluding the leadership challenge two-step and matters of genuine opinion such as climate science.]

Thanks,

AA

How is this about the ultimate porky from Juliar and Whine Swan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMVc0IbtyAQ

And where Juliar has to face the public.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeeXVz2zSOE

The difference with Howard, is that he didn't steal an election with a Lie. He had the integrity to admit he was wrong and then take an unpopular tax to the next election and let the public judge him and his party on it. Juliar promised no unpopular carbon tax and then went ahead anyway. Then to top it off tried to convince us it wasn't a lie. What rubbish.

No one trusts her any more.

PS,

With regard Abbott's so called porkie, given the context that the election campaign was only 6 weeks and he was meeting hundreds of people and working 20 hrs a day, it is entirely possible that in response to an unprepared question that he didn't recall a meeting more than 2 weeks previously falling within the campaign period.

It is entirely your assumption that Abbott has a perfect memory and that he chose to lie.