Yes, that’s pretty much the reality, SM. But without actual firearms.

No, I don’t think it was political expediency so much as trying to get the best outcome for the environment given that the electorate had rejected the ALP’s preferred option of a cap and trade scheme.

On the ethical vacuums of the various parties, SM, did you see the outright porky by Tony Abbott on Lateline? This was clearly a statement he knew was untrue when he made it.

Can you think of any such examples from other party leaders?

Alan Austin your posts highlight just why no thinking person should vote ALP.

You can rationalise any lie, justify any con job they do. This makes obvious the lack of any ethics they, & so many of their supporters, exhibit.

There has never been a mob so committed to "the end justifies the means" philosophy.

I do find it amazing that Richardson, who started the rot, or at least developed it to an art form, is now repulsed by how bad it has become.

AA,

The only ethical vacuum I see is Labor. Abbott didn't do whatever was necessary to gain government. He didn't promise the world when he knew very well he couldn't deliver. He didn't sign an agreement he had no intention of keeping. He negiotated in good faith with the independents but they fell for Julia's lies.

I have no sympathy for Wilkie either. He supported a women who lied to the Australian people. He can't complain when she turns around and knife's him in the back too.

Wobbly,
It sounds like you are the classic Howard hater. Well Howard was our second longest PM - a record the current trash has no chance of matching. What does it say about you that so many Australians voted for Howard for so long, yet you so despise him? How out of step with mainstream opinion, how delusional can you get.

Dane,

Lots of people made up their mind about Howard a few years back - quite decisively as I recall. His party may still have won if Costello had a spine and did what was politically necessary.

It's somewhat delusional to believe those days will magically return.

While I'm no fan of 21st century Labor but knowing what I know about the alternative, how they work and what their aims are, I'm in no hurry to go back there myself.

TurnRightThenLeft,
Very good point and I tend to agree, but he folded on too many other things before the miners came along to claim his scalp. Considering the hung Parliament Gillard has actually won some significant victories but they seem to be ignored in lieu of personal attacks.

Well the main thing I don't like about Gillard, is that she just lacks.......

@Hasbeen, yes, this is a vital point: “There has never been a mob so committed to ‘the end justifies the means’ philosophy.”

Pragmatism. Getting the outcomes desired. This is an intriguing subject of political philosophy, in Australia and elsewhere. The evidence seems to suggest all current parties in Australia are guilty, but some are worse than others. In recent years I don’t think you can say Labor is worse than the conservative Coalition, however.

The fact that most of the ‘Juliar’ criticisms refer to the ‘no carbon tax’ promise is instructive. Because there is an excuse in political morality for that failed outcome - as attempted, perhaps clumsily, above.

There is no such moral excuse however, for John Howard’s abandonment of the ‘no GST never ever’ promise before the 1998 election, is there?

@Dane: No, I think all the evidence suggests the opposite is the case.

All three key independents – Wilkie, Oakeshott and Windsor – actually came from conservative electorates and were expected by all observers to back the Coalition. The prime reason they gave for backing Labor was that they ultimately did not believe Tony Abbott would honour his promises to them. They based this on the recent form of the Liberal party generally and Mr Abbott personally, which are pretty well-documented.

And, yes, Mr Abbott did indeed promise them the world. As Tony Windsor recalls it, Tony Abbott begged the independents by promising everything they asked for. And joked, "the only thing I wouldn't do is sell my arse - but I'd have to give serious thought to it".

Remember, the nickname ‘the Lying Rodent’ was given to John Howard by a senator within his own government after yet another blatant lie to his party.

So my question remains: apart from bold policy promises which turn out impossible to deliver, or the mantric ‘the leader has my total absolute undying support’ can you think of an outright lie from Ms Gillard or anyone else in the Government like that of Mr Abbott speaking to Tony Jones, linked above?