Saltpetre, wantok expressed my reason for not responding to yours and Ojnab's points on global issues. This thread is focused on a particular symptom, dangerous boat journeys.

One has to ask why, if Malaysia is so inhospitable towards refugees, that they make their way there. The matter that Malaysia is a non-signatory to the UN convention on refugees does not deter them, nor does it in relation to Indonesia, and nor did it in relation to Nauru in the past (before its status recently changed).

There are two approaches to deterring boats. Force them back, or, escort them safely to Australian landfall and tranfer them to Malaysia, or Indonesia as wantok suggests. You know my feeling about turning back boats. Both approaches result in the same outcome, but that's where the similarity ends.

Would Indonesia be opposed by the Coalition as a return destination given this same outcome? What significant difference between Malaysia and Indonesia can the Coalition cling to? Absolutely none, yet that is just what it is doing!

In fact, regarding Malaysia, Labor has extracted important committments re the treatment of the 800. They will be able to be formally employed, for example, which you raise as an important concern Salpetre. They don't get that in Indonesia where the Coalition would force them back to!

Regarding the number of processed refugees we take from Malaysia, the 4000 under the swap arrangement is not the sum total of refugees Australia will resettle from Malaysia. Our intake is not all about the swap arrangement.

The wider issues you and Ojnab raise are important, Saltpetre, and perhaps the subject for a new thread

Luciferase,

Confining the discussion to the boats is hardly going to provide a solution to the problem. Many thousands of 'refugees' have fled to Malaysia and Indonesia, and it is clear that these countries don't want them. (It is not unreasonable to assume that Indonesia has been turning a blind eye to the people trade, as it actually serves their interest not to interfere. Some officials may even be profiting from it?)

Aus, UNHCR, etc, could provide aid to Malaysia and Indonesia (and so many other 'host' countries) to establish world's best practice detention centres, and then to develop education and employment opportunities for all these 'refugees', but is this the best solution? Aid will still be needed to provide means to squash the people smuggling racket - but will this stop every boat? Every death in custody, or on the seas?

Long term detention, no matter where or how humane, is not a solution. We are left with a choice. Either all countries receiving 'refugees' open their borders to free immigration, or seal their borders and try to accommodate existing 'refugees' as best they can. Detention, re-education, and staged resettlement or return to home country; or welcome to the welfare state?

The situation in 'refugee' home countries is being improved. Until it improves further their will still be thousands alienated from their home soil, thousands fleeing from destitution and impoverishment.

Resettlement is the only solution. The only question is where? Home country, or new patron?

wrong wrong! Indonesia & Aussie Pollies do not have blood on their hands. Media jurnos have it; as too much is false info and just HOW much d they pay for their info and to whom I suggest? [News of The World closed due to improper media-jurno deals ok!]
No political person makes nor forces these persons onto these boats..THEY select this method of transportation. To stop all boat and human traffic MINE the coasts of the entire Indo coast lines and have 24/7 naval boats every 100 mtrs apart..ok... OR once caught return them to where they claim they come from..THAT VERY SAME DAY THEY ARE CAUGHT. We here can't solve the Global problem of others.
T Abbott is most at fault for dictating to his party..just like Hitler re The Jewish Solution..never worked did it? This is a historical fact, not diatribe ok

Some contributors here are of the same mentality as someone who needs to get blown up before they realise explosives are dangerous.
Some of you really don't have a minute's worth of foresight. Beats me how you made it this far ? Simply unbelieveable.

Duncan,
why is it australian & indonesian politicians who have blood on their hands ?
Firstly, it's those who make people leave for whatever reason who are guilty.
Secondly, killing seas ? I spend quite a lot of time on boats & I'd have thought seas by nature get rough occasionally & if people are unlucky enough to get caught then that's just that, unlucky. Don't blame the politicians for that. If you however have to blame politicians that you'll also have to blame the people who voted them in. I believe it was two blokes who did that in Australia.

Don't be so hard on yourself, Indy.