Joe the closest I could find was Dane's post at http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=12865#222032

No where near the allegation that David makes. I think David's just made it up in the hope that Alice's supporters won't check. Gives them a reason to dismiss the points that most posters are making. A lot simpler than discussing the issues.

R0bert

G'day Joe,

You don't get a whiff of that from Divine MSN and Dane's comments? Maybe its just my take on those remarks in the context of Alice's piece and those remarks. But, I just doubt that an Anglo-Saxon writer saying the same things would be offered a one-way trip to a Muslim country.

A friend of mine recently returned from Europe and related that anti-multi-cultural sentiment is growing with some cities in Germany displaying signs even on street posts and the like.

One incident relayed was a case about banning begging in public spaces given all citizens are able to access welfare. The complainant argued her civil right to beg was being thwarted and won the case. This has caused much uproar in that country where begging has become a real problem.

Multi-culturalism has been around for some decades now it is not new and has worked well for the most part. It is too easy to dismiss concerns about some cultural practices as Islamophobia. It is also too easy to generalise about Islam. Muslims, like Christians, are not a homogenous group, many Muslims enjoying the same freedoms and protections that were lacking in their country of origin.

The protections that are set up in a Western democracy through law should apply equally to all citizens. It is in applying the law that governments and the judiciary should be blind to cultural practices that oppose those rights of freedoms, in particular to rights relating to one's body.

I tend to agree with much of what ROBert has written. Tolerance does not mean accepting practices which go against the rights and freedoms in Western societies. Cultural relativism does not mean casting a blind eye over practices that impinge other freedoms. Some standards and laws are better than others and have importance and value in a Western democratic society - this should not be forgotten in the push for multi-culturalism.

Tolerance is a two-way street, it has to be otherwise multi-culturalism will be a dismal failure.

Sometimes it is right (in the case of FMG) to stand up when something is wrong no matter who might be offended. But we also have to be prepared to take criticism as well as give it for some of our own standards.

Of course ALL people living in Australia must abide by our laws, no matter what their ethnic or cultural backgrounds.
However, this country was forcefully taken over by immigrants and convicts originally,
and It will always be a multicultural country.
I would hate to see a resurgence of a 'white Australia policy', or a new chapter of the Ku Klux Klan.....

David I've got little doubt that writer of anglo origin's who'd written what Alice wrote would get a suggestion from some quarters that they try out some of the tolerance in Muslim countries. Could be some racism in particular posts but without more evidence you are just speculating.

A bit more honesty about the issues and less spin from Alice would help. Concerns about muslim integration into Australian culture is not racism, concerns about the behavior of particular sub groups of migrants is not necessarily racism although sometimes racial/national origin tags are used to identify the groups (not always correct but it is really messy trying to avaoid it).

There are real issues in some area's. I suspect that has a lot to do with the associations maintained once people arrive and often it seems to manifest more in the second generation, their parents knew why they escaped their country of origin, kid's who have grown up primarily mixing with others of their own background may not get it in the same way. The attitudes of the leadership of particular religious groups will be part of the mix, I've got the impression that the leadership of one mosque in Sydney has a lot to answer for in the way Muslims are viewed in this country (but then people make a choice to countinue to be part of that mosque).

Cutting the spin, the claims of racism and all the other junk used pretnet that nothing is wrong would be a big help to undo the anti-multiculturalism views of some. Some stuff does not work well, other parts are great. We can do it better.

R0bert

Spot-on, Suse. There are different forms of multiculturalism and I'm quite comfortable with any form which is built on a non-discriminatory foundation of equal rights.

David,

No, with respect, I don't think you are right on either count. Those remarks were not aimed at Ms Aslan's ethnicity. And if, say, John Pilger had written the article, then he may well have been offered similar recommendations that he travel to Muslim countries and demand equal rights for gays. I'd chip in if he needed the readies.

I wonder how that would go down in Saudi Arabia.

Joe