Saltpetre,
you're right I would have a hard time proving my contentions, though the weight of anecdotal evidence is damning of Australia's vaunted tolerance. Here's a link to ethnic enclaves in the US that I think would be broadly true of Australia too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_enclave

I think you would have a much tougher time proving <that Aussies are amongst the most hospitable and tolerant of peoples>
To begin with there are no such people as "Aussies", in the sense of an exclusive national culture; modern Australia is a highly complex ethnic mix and the archetypal Aussie doesn't and has never existed outside a tiny and over-represented legendary figure. And yet it is precisely that figure--which some Aussies "affect"--who sports the F off we're full signs on their SUV's and have their precious colonial flag flying in their front yards and think they have the right to say which aliens are welcome and which are not, conveniently forgetting they're aliens themselves.
Nevertheless you're probably correct that <given free choice, a majority of Australians would prefer if Muslim immigration to Australia was restrained, if not totally curtailed>. But this is unfortunate as it's based on ignorance and fear of the Muslim faith, whose extremists are the product of US led foreign policies.

Immigration is a massive topic that we're not dealing with here, but Western conservative discrimination and intolerance. It's about about paranoia and hoarding and 'twas ever thus.

Banjo,
200 years BC, Terence said: <Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto>, which translates as: "I am a man, I consider nothing that is human alien to me".

Squeers has written the most sensible posts on this topic so far.
"Immigration is a massive topic that we're not dealing with here, but Western conservative discrimination and intolerance. It's about about paranoia and hoarding and 'twas ever thus."

Exactly!

With the current paranoia about Muslim immigrants, one only has to insert the name of other groups of immigrants over the years, to see that this intolerance has been going on for as long as the 'whitefellas' have taken over this country.

Think of all the carry-on about the Germans, Italians, Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, and Cambodian immigrants in years gone by.
All the usual rednecks in our society came out ranting and raving about how all these groups of people were a 'threat' to our way of life too.

Look at how the vast majority of people from these countries managed to integrate successfully into our society?

All this talk about some groups bringing in 'dangerous cultural practices' from other countries is rubbish.
We all have to abide by the current laws, regardless of where we come from.

I am sure there will always be people in our society who need another ethnic group or two to complain about, in order to try to bignote themselves.

It is an unfortunate trait in some humans...

Divine MSN, I think my criticisms of your posts have largely been validated in the discussion above.

Your remarks against Alice Aslan seem unnecessarily personal. Take the extract below from one of your posts:

"Alice Aslan would likely be executed in countries mentioned where the Islamic religion dominates culture, law and governance."

Why is it necessary to refer to Alice directly here rather than to a person holding similar views? Is it actually the case that a person who holds those views would be executed? If so, where is your proof?

"Here in Australia Alice would be viewed with absolute HATRED by some Moslems for same reasons."

And my some non-Muslims as well, but so what? How does any of that impugn the correctness of her arguments?

"Yet she always decries a lack of tolerance by the "West" against immigrants of the Moslem faith."

So are you suggesting because (i) there is the possibility of violence overseas and (ii) some people in Australia might hold hateful views, that Alice should not be able to make an argument about tolerance in the West? That just isn't logical. It really does smack of a "if you are not happy here go away" attitude. It is distasteful.

The things that you have said that are offensive have been pointed out to you. Yet, you have not qualified your statements.

Also, you wrote:

"Implying mixed race renders me incapable of racism?"

If you read my post carefully you will see that I actually suggested that your comments seemed to make that implication.

If you read your own posts carefully you will see that they are open to the interpretations that you protest against.

Suseonline

Paranoia you say? Why is it paranoia to dislike an ideology that teaches hate and violence? Have you read the Quran and ahadith? Have you noticed that almost alone among immigrants; Muslims reject the core values that have made Australia great. And before you say otherwise, consider what Muslims do where they dominate. I don’t think Muslims in Australia are any different from their brethren in Islamic societies.

So we take an ideology that is seriously flawed and we add the sacred doctrine of multiculturalism, which insists that we cannot judge or even criticize that vile ideology. What do we get? Conflict, social disruption and violence.

I doubt that German, Italian, Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, and Cambodian immigrants worship a god that tells them ‘the other’ (ie, non-Muslims) is ‘lower than animals’. I doubt if you can find any other religion that says “praise be upon him” after the name of a man that attacked, murdered, looted, tortured, enslaved and raped his neighbors. I doubt if you can find any other group today that has, by words and actions, associated themselves with hate and violence like Muslims.

Oh, who knows, maybe it was Chinese that bombed Bali; maybe it is Germans that kill Copts in Egypt; maybe it is was Cambodians that attacks hotels in Mumbai; maybe it was the Vietnamese that bombed trains in Spain and, who knows, maybe it was the Italians that killed 200+ schoolchildren in Russia.

Do these things matter? I believe they do. Insisting that the same moral standards should apply to all, or asking hard questions about Islamic beliefs and practices, or even not wanting to exclude people that follow an ideology based upon hate and violence is not, as you put it, unfortunate. It is a principled position that defends basic human rights.

Squeers, So Muslim violence is caused by the US policy (or crusaders, colonialism, Israel, poverty, the media, Jews, ignorance, a misguided few, culture, lack of education, the suffering of the Palestinians, etc and etc…). Obviously you have never read the Quran and hadith. Try 9:111 to start.

No-one has mentioned the impact of foreign policy on perceptions of Islam. If Australia was invaded by a Muslim nation we would be fighting as much as any other to defend our shores. War creates terrorists, an illegal war exacerbates the problem. Did we learn nothing from Vietnam. Peace should always be the objective unfortunately there are too many profiteering from the war machine with warped notions of democracy and patriotism being flung about to blur the reality. I digress a bit but it is all relevant.

The worst extremes of any religion are often politically motivated, religious doctrine serving usually as a vehicle for absolution. No religion or doctrine is free of a violent or self-serving history.

Fear of foreigners is not new, and adjustment to a new culture and legal framework is not new. The same fear was raised with the Vietnamese, Chinese and Europeans of non-English speaking backgrounds. Some bought bad habits including old cultural hatreds but eventually after generational change integration was successful.

It is not about foreigners but about how the government applies the law, that is where much of the resentment about MC starts, the idea that some cultural practices deemed an infringement of rights should be overlooked in favour of cultural 'tolerance'.

Multi-culturalism does not automatically imply multi-legal systems, that is a path Australia should not go down IMO. Make the law stick and the problems will reduce. Immigrants are able to make choices if they wish to stay and adhere to the rule of law or choose another country where their views are shared. It is really that simple and in reality the numbers of migrants who do not embrace democracy, greater personal liberty and human rights are the minority.

Suseonline: >> "All this talk about some groups bringing in 'dangerous cultural practices' from other countries is rubbish."

So, Suse, FMG is just "rubbish"? Or are you one of those bien pensants who just don't believe it happens here?

http://intactnews.org/node/126/1315837969/australia-sees-rising-demand-female-genital-mutilation

http://www.search-results.com/web?l=dis&o=15914&q=female%20genital%20mutilation%20clips&atb=sysid%3D2%3Auid%3Dc33316803bfbd8fa%3Auc%3D1321250715%3Asrc%3Dhmp%3Ao%3D15914%3Aq%3Dfemale%2520genital%2520mutilation%2520clips

Help us out, Suse, is that a "dangerous cultural practice" or not?