Has this guy ever served in Afghanistan and seen both sides of the case? What is his record on morality?

The time has past where we could cast aside any concerns as to what's going on in another country. We are a global society now & have to adjust our thinking accordingly. Where our powers to be are going wrong is that they're not serious enough in stamping out evil because evil creates wealth. And, wealth is what everyone desires. Get used to status quo for some time yet.

Pakistan seems to be where the infiltrators are coming from. A clean is on the books.

We cannot justify the presence of our young citizens any longer.

Until we can identify the "Enemy Within" , a moral issue , we need to ditch the murderous place faster than possible !

Put simply, Scott MacInness, war is unavoidable.

Do not torture yourself like I have done since such statement was dished to me in my early years; just note that, when we care to look within and outside us, we cannot but see wars.

Peace itself is a condition of war, a ‘truce between wars’.

It is only when we accept the unavoidability of these phenomena that we can start to look at their virtues and vices.

At then!

Bravo! Asking the war machine to justify it's actions is not only ethically correct, but is also necessary from an economic view. War is too expensive in lives and resources to enter into for frivolous reasons!
"Lest we forget" was such a sad irony when Howard mouthed the words after using "WMDs" and "regime change" as justifications for invading Iraq...against international law. 911 was not the excuse (or Saudi Arabia would have been the target), nor were the stated sound-bites in the media. Hundreds of thousands of innocent deaths demand better than: "well we *thought* they were there!". Clearly the crims are still getting away with it.
As for "life is war, war is hell"... slightly defeatist, not to mention nihilist I'd say!

This an excellent article and deserving of a more considered and intelligent response than shown by the majority of the comments to date (ozandy-an honourable exception).
Space limitations preclude a detailed analysis of Mr McInnes' arguments, but I will take up on one point. He says that the primary threshold question is whether we can still morally justify exposing our troops to death and injury (paraphrased).
I suggest that there is an earlier threshold question: are we justified, legally or morally, in embarking upon the (in this case) invasion and occupation of a foreign sovereign nation?
The answer in international law is very clear. One nation may only attack another in circumstances permitted under the UN Charter. None of those circumstances pertain to the attack a, invasion and occupation of Afghanistan. Ergo, it is illegal and Australia is merely part of ongoing criminal activity.
For a refreshingly honest appraisal of the current state of affairs in Afghanistan readers might like to go to Tuesday 1 November's broadcast of Democracy Now where Amy Goodman interviews Jonathon Steele of the Guardian. One will learn more from that interview than hours of the mindless pap that ABC and SBS inflict upon us.

Well, if memory serves me correctly we justified ourselves initially because we believed not only that Bin Laden was still there, but that deep down the Afghans wanted to live under a secular system instead of a Shariah authority like the Taliban.

Now that Bin Laden is dead, and now that the Afghans have failed, after 10 years of us removing the Taliban, to embrace this system we *thought* they wanted, there is really not much reason to stay anymore.

James O’Neill

So, there is a Law of that regulates Wars: Who wrote it and where is it?

I need a copy of it to make my bully neighbor laugh himself to death.

Soldiers know what they are there for, and they know the dangers. If they read posts like that they would be embarrassed. Radical belief, is the cause of war, and that is not going away any time soon. If they kept their tribal belief, to them-self, with out exporting it, there would be no need for war.

James I personally believe that Drugs would be sufficient for me to justify a military action in Afghanistan; But 10 years have passed and Afghans are still cultivating Poppies .

We have failed , there are no victories , none of out troops have let us down we instead have let them down , injuries and deaths have prevailed because we are in a war zone but we are not there to win ; to much pussy
and no grunt, a footy team dressed in Pinafores . Then we have to put up with a cowering Defence Minister on the brink of tears choking out his
cringe.............did you ever hear Churchill bleating like a lamb , not likely he knew war and had the balls to win .

@ Skeptic: You comment is so profoundly ignorant that anything I say is unlikely to influence you one little bit so I won't bother.

@ Garum Masala: Afghanistan was a major exporter of heroin prior to the Taliban government. The Taliban virtually eliminated production, at least in the areas they controlled. The overthrow of the Taliban government by the Americans and their allies in late 2001 led immediately to a surge in poppy production and hence heroin. Afghanistan now accounts for 93% of the world's production of heroin.

There is ample evidence that American intervention around the world is always followed by surges in illegal drug production. That is not a coincidence. See for example, Alfred McCoy The Politics of Heroin and Peter Dale Scott The Road to 9/11.

The UN Drug Agency's director said that it was illegal money laundering of drug money that kept western banks afloat during the 2008/09 financial crisis. Wachovia Bank pleaded guilty to laundering more than $400 billion in drug money, not that you would read much about that in the financial pages of the mainstream press.

The author of this deja vu article should be congratulated for his foresight, analytic perception and academic aptitude. What a timely expose : " remembrance Day 2011 " e.g a dignified glorification of War !

Without divining into Australia's copious THINK TANKS, i.e Lowry Institute, Dibbs / White / Mortimer etc Reviews, ADA, Kokoda Foundation etc, this topic has been regurgitated umpteen times by more Academic Phd's, then paid Analyst, from the Office of National Assessments in the ACT.!

Realistically, our obsequious, cliche-driven, much vaunted ADF are grossly subservient to the USA for our future survival, no matter what Defence Minister Smith equivocates. For a Nation which spends less on Research & Development, then it does on bipolar disorders, and mental health, what can one really expect ? It's a Life time characteristic to piggy-back on other people's technology & successes.

Treasurer Swan's Election pork-barreling budget purloined $ 2.5 B from US Defence contracts e.g Joint Strike Fighters, P3 Orions, Hornet upgrades, 12 new submarines etc into welfare payments. Another $ 1.5 B cuts to equipment shortages, and sacking 1000 civilian boffins on to the scrap heap. $1.9 B on two unwinnable Wars, and Peace keeping Operations in five theaters of the Globe !

Smith's bizarre announcement of permitting women to serve in every Branch of the ADF, in light of HMAS Success pornographic Inquiry, and our ten latest casualties by a rogue ANA trooper, in Tarin Kwot, is indicative someone is egregiously out of their depth. Will Smith and his retinue of camp followers be at the waiting tarmac, to welcome the female warrior's caskets, as they are brought home by the dozen, in a C130 ?

Who is supportive of the Afghan people ? They continue to grow the World's largest crop of Opium. The Kazai Govt depend on it's penetration to the four corners of the Globe. Human Right's violations is endemic, and women are still mercilessly stoned to death. Worst, this paradigm is a parsimonious rerun of Vietnam, where the Civil Aid Program ran off the rails, and the " good guys " slope..

cont..

slope heads, ARVN finished up in Interment Camps for brain washing and Communist indoctrination courses, which incidentally the RSL Branches, now want a " memorandum of understanding " with our Diggers murderer's at Long Tan ?

Enough said. Some people have short memories. Has anyone stopped to consider what the eighteen families, dependents and next-of-kin have to say on the matter ?

Bureaucracy gone MAD.

here here Jacinta I never thought I would 'see' you about anything but on this occasion you have my attention .

I don't think governments could always be expected to live up to Mr MacInnes' high standards for avoiding conflict, but could certainly do better. Will mankind never learn? Note Israel's latest dummyspit reaction to the Palestinians' acceptance to UNESCO - a cooperative organisation. Are there no bounds to arrogance and sefishness?

As for Afghanistan, I was not convinced by the father of the latest ANA whackjob when he said his son had no involvement with the Taliban - very unconvincing. In contrast to the Libyan people, the Afghans don't appear to be willing to stand up to the Taliban, and continue to hate the allied intervention. Kharzai also seems to be a whimp, and not to have the support of the populace. I think we should get out and let them sort it out for themselves - but after forcing them to conduct a fair and comprehensive national election.

As for drugs, people need a good whack in the bum and stop taking them. What a pack of whinging whimps. Woe is me; life's so hard; I miss my mum. Whimps.

War. Damned if you do, and damned if you don't. Too slow to intervene in Rwanda; too pussyfooting in Srebrenica; too lenient in Mogadishu; naughty, naughty assistance in Libya; hands off Syria! Can't please everyone.

The lavishness of the West, and the resources and lives wasted in conflict - immoral. If resources could be employed more sanely in supporting education and industry development in impoverished nations, just to give them a leg up, the foundations of conflict could be defused, and the groundwork established for a tolerant and democratic world. I won't hold my breath.

Malaysia is mounting a legal case for the indictment of Bush and Blair for war crimes in Iraq.

The war on terror is a lie. http://www.ae911truth.org? The science is now irrefutable.

I must confess that I have not read the article, however, my comment would be, can these countries afford to bring their troops back,as there is no work home for them and, given they are now accustomed to huge wages, how will they and thier families survive without these huge pay packets.

Then there are the private contractors. One guy I know went over 7 years ago and has now returned a multi millionaire. Ne started with nothing other tan the skills he gained from the army.

The governmentS have made a rod for their own backs with this one.

The emblematic Red Poppy that once graced the hillsides of Flanders, is to once again be honored, on the 11th Nov 2011, as the Day of Remembrance. Poppy ( not to be confused with Afghan variety Opium seed. ) Armistice & Veteran's Day - signifies very little has changed over the millennium.

We are still at War !

Mercurial, Obama ( Dec.2009 ) rhetorically declared, all US troops would be withdrawn by 2014 !
Paradoxically, and in the same breath, Bagram & Kandaha AFB, are being expanded fivefold, to house the greatest Military War Machine, history has ever known ! Bigger then Diego Garcia & Ben Hur combined ! Presently 150,000 troops from 48 Countries are involved in NATO-ISAF. Embedded, are 195,000 Afghan National Army servicemen and 125,000 Afghan National Policemen.

Noticeably, we celebrate TEN years, 2 Presidents, 4 Defence Ministers,and 10 US Generals later. The Afghan War costing $ 1.2 B a Day, with civilian deaths exacerbating daily, at an alarming rate. The coalition of the willing, is looking decidedly more like the " killing fields of Pol Pot's Kampuchea ".

The grim reality - this interminable, asymptomatic, and unwinnable War, is replicating what History has decreed : " the grave yard of Empires ".( Alexander, Mongol, British, Soviets etc ) Quixotically, with a burgeoning US National debt crisis of $14.7 T,and the greenback in free-fall, why lose sleep over a lost cause and trifling skirmish ? Indeed.

The ADF is fully committed to the Mentoring Program, which has to date, cost four Australian lives, and seven mortally wounded. This cynical training of the ANA, has been an unmitigated disaster and abysmal failure, from Day one. 300,000 strong, only 1:5 are literate. Majority are hardwired to systemic corruption,

cont..

corruption, desertions, drugs, bribery, tribal pay-backs, etc. In short, this basket-case, exercise, proves conclusively, it's an unmitigated, poxy-moronic, hair-brained schmozzle that will inevitably lead to more grief and pain. Over this perdition,over 40 Military lives, among 20 ISAF Countries, have needlessly been sacrificed.

Palpably,Kazai's praetorian body guard are all ( Blackwater Inc ) Foreigners.

Afghans follow simple axiomatic truths and values:
. Family
. Tribe
. Honor
. culture & Country
One has to understand the Psych before the physiological. Importantly, why are we there ?
OECD, rates Afghanistan, as one of the poorest e.g 91st in the World.$ 29.8 B GDP. $1000, per Capita. 36 % unemployed, and suffering extraneous impoverishment. Depends on Foreign Aid, petroleum, etc and the Opium Trade. 3.3 million Afghan's produce over $ 3.B worth of Opium ( CIA Fact files ) which kills and maims 100,000 world-wide. Particularly vulnerable are the Soviets, who share borders. Putin claims it's become a pandemic. Replacing vodka, as the staple diet of the Nation.

Finally, in the modicum of hindsight, our 1550 servicemen & women, are highly unlikely to be recalled in the short term. Defence Minister Smith, made it quite clear in NO uncertain terms. We are there for the long haul.

Yet, another Ministerial obscuration and more chicanery.

More's the pity.

"When Remembrance Day comes around next week many of us will" remember Ned Kelly and/or the sacking of Whitlam?

Australians barely bother with this day, preferring the Great Pissup of ANZAC Day.

Why do people join the forces, is the real mystery to me.

If it's 'for a job' then we need to re examine the role of work urgently.

War, particularly for the USA, is a good business and their nation would be financially crippled without it everywhere.

We should pull our soldiers out of Afghanistan and keep them out of any future wars over there.

If we went to war to make Afghanistan a democratic nation that was a clone of the West, why, there's no end of nation states that deserve an invasion, not the least China, Burma, Nth Korea, Mexico, and just about every nation in Africa.

An argument could be made that the USA needs a democracy injection, but no one wants to look at that.