On one hand the author says indigenous people are healthier for living in their homelands and at the same time reports very high incidence of medical problems. Somethings amiss in her reasoning.

No amount of Government money for Education makes a difference if you don't send your children to school.

Poverty ? Really ?

Don't people in remote communities receive standard welfare payments, just like other Australians, without the standard obligations to look for work ?

Do people still get BOTH ABSTUDY (if they are enrolled in TAFE courses) AND CDEP (for working two days a week, on home duties) ?

Don't many (or all ?) Indigenous communities in the NT receive annual royalty payments, from mineral exploitation and from national park entry fees ?

Don't many families in remote communities receive the remote education allowance, up to $ 24,000 per year ?

Aren't people out in homelands happily hunting and gathering ?

What sort of rents are people paying for their half-million-dollar, seven-year-life, houses ? Do they pay for their own electricity and water use ? Don't most larger remote communities have running water, flush toilets, and therefore enough water to set up vegetable gardens, orchards, chook yards (check out a community at random on Google Maps) ?

Just asking :)

Meanwhile, in the cities, every year, Indigenous women are commencing tertiary (university) education at 80-85 % of parity with NON-Indigenous Australian women. In fact, their commencement level is higher than that of NON-Indigenous Australian men.

Joe

The only way Australia is failing the children is by allowing welfare money meant for food to be used to keep people in a drunken state and contributing to them neglecting their kids. The idea that you can go from partner to partner and not take responsibilty for your biological kids is also contributing greatly to poverty and total lack of love for these kids. Dare I say if they were a different colour they would be taken away to be cared for by people who care. Speaking the truth will be labelled racist.

MH181011

Michelle Harris,

The invaders of this country are failing their children.

The preceding comments testify to it.

Thank you, Skeptic,

Perhaps you could answer those questions ? Perhaps you could explain why Indigenous women in the towns and cities are doing so well at university, taking class background into account ? How come they seem to be doing better than non-Indigenous working-class women ?

The way things seem to be in remote communities (where invaders are pretty thin on the ground), the quicker people are able to get to the towns and cities, gain skills, then employment and be able to live satisfying lives, and guide their children for the next generation, the better. Listening to Rosalie Kunoth-Monks last night on Q&A, it appears that even leaders in communities don't have much idea what to do, except demand more outside help, in the name of self-determination. Am I wrong, Skeptic ?

Joe

skeptic

'The invaders of this country are failing their children.'

get over it. Be thankful it wasn't the Dutch or Japanese. It is likely we would not be having this discussion if that was the case. Thankfully life expectancy for the first people has increased drastically thanks to the colonisers.

Michelle Harris is right - Government polciies are badly failing the Aboriginal people of the Northern Territory, especially all those people who live in communities other than the 15 arbitrarily chose priority communities. Thus communities big,medium and small are missing out on the 'Closing the Gap' resources. This is all to establish an ideologically-driven concept of what a 'good' Aboriginal community is like, and what a 'good' Aboriginal person is like. In the meantime there is massive over-crowding and an irresponsible failure to maintain and renew existing investments in public housing and related infrastructure representing millions of dollars. These assets are to be allowed to rot into the ground just to satisfy the assimilationist fantasies of various senior and unaccountable bureaucrats. Outstations are where assets last longest, with houses often lasting 30 or 40 years, yet these are absolutely discriminated against.

These comments are based on 40 years close involvement with and experience of the Northern Territry.

Here you go, runner,

http://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/health/aboriginal-life-expectancy.html

Poirot

No one is disputing that todays life expectancy for aboriginals is less than that of others. You miss the point completely (and quite likely deliberately).

The reasons given on the link you provided have one major omission. I wonder why? Spin, spin and more spin. That is why we are worse off than 50 years ago with all these 'éxpert' reports that always fail to address any sort of personal responsabilities. You are adding to the failure not helping it with spin. Thankfully Loudmouth seems to know what he is talking about.

Hi Zelig,

I'm a bit worried that some people seem as if they would be quite happy if Aboriginal people were all driven out into the desert, as Mr Neville used to do (according to Mrs. M.M. Bennett, a great fighter for Aboriginal rights): their 'natural habitat', is it ?

Just a question about housing: elsewhere in Australia, public housing is built on land that public housing authorities either own or lease. In remote communities, Aboriginal people quite rightly own their own land. So - this is not a rhetorical question - why do, or should, public housing authorities build houses for people on their own land ? Where else do they do that ?

Another question: in the NT, Aboriginal people in remote communities get mining and conservation park royalties - isn't that so ? These royalties amount to quite a few thousand dollars per person per year, which cracks out to tens of thousands a year for some families. If communities had the gumption to lease out housing blocks, the blocks that people currently live on, why can't people pay for their houses from royalties and own them outright, just like people in Canberra can ? Why should it be a responsiblity of public housing authorities ?

Another question: about infrastructure - roads, public buildings, schools, clinics, airfields, etc.: you suggest that these should be funded adequately, and fair enough. But in Australia, ALL of the public is allowed to use public roads ,take their children to public schools, use publicly-funded clinics, etc. So why should 'outsiders' have to apply for permits in order to use those facilities, mainly the publicly-funded roads ? Is there a differentiation between public-'public' and public-'Aboriginal only' ?

These are cruel questions, I know, but they need answers. Think of me as, inter alia, a sort of devil's advocate :)

Joe

Thanks for your praise, Runner. I'm really done for now with my Left friends.

Poirot,

Those figures - as they are - are quite dishonest and misleading. For urban population, particularly those people who are working, their indices are not all that different from those of other Australians.

But the actual situation in remote communities is so dreadful that to lump the figures together, for urban and remote populations, blurs the real picture: if only someone had the courage to make a study of remote communities on the basis of those indices - they would find that the gap in life expectancy, for instance, is not twenty years but forty years.

Hospitalisation is far higher for remote than urban Indigenous people. Morbidity, young adult mortality, incidence of diabetes and a host of other diseases, is far higher.

Right ? Wrong ?

So I reluctantly have to conclude that those of us who would advocate sending people out to even more remote camps and out-stations, away from schools in particular, is either a half-wit or a racist.

Joe

I would gladly give up my job if the Govt gave me a house & all other support to live out in those beautiful places. I see it everyday & to be brutally honest I get rather envious at times.

"We fear for their future, for their ability to learn to walk in two worlds, to obtain an education and a job. We fear for their health and their general well-being. But most of all, we fear that these recent changes [the NTER legislation] will lead to the loss of our land, our culture and our language."

Well it seems the aboriginal side is letting these children down bigtime if the Adults can't even hunt and collect fresh bush tucker to at least supplement the childrens diet or construct traditional shelters to ease crowding. Not to mentioning teaching them the same skills? I mean what the hell is their "culture" about if these basics are not being followed?

There's not a possibility that 'culture' is just too hard eh? Or that welfare money means access to easy tucker? Could it be alcohol and substance abuse leads to much chronic neglect and abuse of 'sacred' little children? Or that decades of alcohol abuse has led to high incidence of subnormal intellect? Yes - alcoholic brain damage, foetal alcohol syndrome and head injuries caused when drunken indigenous folk indulge in a good old cultural dust-up where all the family can get involved. Hmmmm? What about chances the dysfunction in some communities is so extreme that no child in any other 'community' in Australia would be left there?

No of course not! All that stuff is just racist hate speech and I ought to be ashamed of myself ....

Continued ...

Honestly though, how can a claim like "Australian Red Cross on its website refers to Aboriginal children under the age of five in some remote Northern Territory communities as "suffering malnutrition at rates similar to children in countries like Ethiopia."" be taken seriously? There is no excuse for that in an aboriginal community where there is access to both traditional and introduced food. In fact I would bet my last dollar that if these communities were supplied weekly with free fresh food sufficient for everyone there would still be malnutrition IF at the same time there was money and access to junk food and booze. The bottom line is that affected children need removing and given a chance in 'white man's world.

Meantime I suggest the assertation that "Homelands are safer and healthier places for children to live within their communities" is for many unfortunate kids the lie that will cost them any sort of a future bar welfare addict bum and in many cases their life.

Too sad for words

Divine, you say you can't take the Red Cross figures seriously. Are you suggesting that the Red Cross is lying?

Your bottom line is that all 'affected' children should be removed. Will you take one of the children? How many foster carer's do you think would be needed? If you google "shortage of foster carers", you will see that these wonderful people are already in short supply.

Back in the good old days when we took the children into white homes, for their own good of course, we could use them as unpaid servants and sex slaves, so perhaps we could repeal the laws against this sort of thing and in that way more white families might be willing to raise them to be just like us.

Loudmouth

'Thanks for your praise, Runner. I'm really done for now with my Left friends.'

Sorry I forgot the best the left can usually do is guilt by association especially once their ideologies have been exposed. Look at the way they treat many true scientist who have exposed their gw religion.

Joe, Welcome back !!

Thought we'd lost you for a while there.

Poverty or Luxury !?

This so called “Poverty”, Pure, Misleading, Unadulterated “Aboriginal Victim Industry” ( AVI ) “CRAP” !!

In this Country, there is "No Such Thing" !!

Itemise Calculate and Compare All Countries Indigenous.
Income, Amount of Food Available, ( including Traditional ) Access to Doctors, Education, Everything !! and Publish the figures !!

I reckon that We would come out the “ Number One Choice” for “Many Hundreds” of “ IMPOVERISHED” Black People from Africa alone !!
If they ever found out what us Black-fellas here in Australia get They would Invade !! We get a minimum, $474 a fortnight. Each and Everyone of us.
Also, in NSW, Two and a half “Billion Dollars” was allocated to Aboriginal Issues last year alone. Going by that, what do you reckon ? A lazy, “Ten Billion” Nationally !? Wow !! This is “Serious” Money !! Yet the AVI continue to drag this “Poverty” along. Only they now say it is “Relative” Poverty !! Isn't this what's called “Spin Doctoring” !? They ( AVI ) are “Very Tricky” People !! Many are “Academics” and “Very Experienced and Seasoned Campaigners” They know what to say !! Plenty in the “Indigenous Units” aka “Research Centres” !! cause they are “Un-Employable” Elsewhere !! How many “Billions” do “They” get !? “

Arthur Bell. ( aka bully ) www.whitc.inf

Mollydukes - to clarify my words re Red Cross report. No I don't suggest Red Cross is lying. I'm quite confident that they have reported accurately.

What I mean by not taking seriously is Red Cross comparing children in war torn, famine riddled impoverished countries with children living in wealthy peaceful Australia whose PARENTS are failing to supply the necessities of life.

Not out of POVERTY because every one of those parents has access to funds sufficient to feed their children.

Not out of FAMINE as each of those parents would have the opportunity to hunt and collect bush tucker to not only supplement the family diet but to impart the 'aboriginal culture' that's supposed to be so damn important.

Not out of WAR - unless one terms the extent of internal strife in these toxic communities a state of civil war. There is nobody laying siege, destroying crops livestock and shelter, beating and raping and killing bar the enemy within.

As for removing children ... Yes I would take a child or two under conditions that they were young enough to truly rehabilitate - preferably preschool age, with no remarkable health or psychological problems and no-one was getting them back. Taking children out of abusive situations then returning them, then removing, returning, removing - all for the precious dogma of 'keeping the child with it's natural family' is not only highly destructive but cruelty of the highest order.

In other words - adoption or long term foster care ONLY. It's the only way to provide a loving relationship, security and opportunities these kids need.

PS There are an awful lot of ex-foster carers out there Mollydukes. Many of whom quit because of the 'system' which really doesn't put the welfare of the child first and often fails in it's duty of care to foster parents as well.

For evidence of which I speak - do some research into child murders and cases of extreme abuse and note how many of the victims were "known to child protection agencies"

I reckon that We would come out the “ Number One Choice” for “Many Hundreds of Millions” of “IMPOVERISHED” Black People from Africa alone !! If they ever found out what us Black-fellas here in Australia get They would Invade !! We get a minimum, $474 a fortnight. Each and Everyone of us. As well, in NSW, Two and a half “Billion Dollars” was allocated to Aboriginal Issues last year alone. Going by that, what do you reckon ? A lazy, “Ten Billion” Nationally !? Wow !! This is “Serious” Money !! Yet the AVI continue to drag this “Poverty” along like some sort of “security blanket”. Only they now say it is “Relative” Poverty !! Isn't this what's called “Spin Doctoring” !? They ( AVI ) are “Very Tricky” People !! Many are “Academics” and “Very Experienced and Seasoned Campaigners” They know what to say !! Plenty in the “Indigenous Units” aka “Research Centres” !! cause they are “Un-Employable” Elsewhere !! How many “Billions” do “They” get !? “
Arthur Bell. ( aka bully ) edited. for more info www.whitc.info