Quite a few compelling issues have been raised in this thread, not least being "rexw"'s raising of the drugs question, and "CHERFUL"'s reference to foreign aid for health and education. There is also the question of the role, effectiveness and accountability of the United Nations, and of the Security Council in particular.

Firstly though, I would dispute "rexw"'s contention that 9/11 was a Bush "conspiracy", or that such an opinion could be held by an "intelligent majority" - I don't think Bush was smart enough or stupid enough to concoct such an abomination, or that the US administration could be so degenerate.

The burning question really is whether anyone is likely to be better off as a result of the interventions in Iraq or Afghanistan? Perhaps there were better alternatives, but such is now purely conjectural. We are left with an enormous mess, and a gargantuan challenge.

As for foreign aid, we should all be reasonably aware that world population is heading for a crunch, and therefore aid should probably be focused on female education, particularly in regard to family planning (and business/commerce), as well as youth education - particularly in regard to science and technology - followed by infrastructure programs to establish new industries and commerce. Targetted aid is surely the best option for achieving peace and stability, and conflict the least?

It will be a great day when the swords are sheathed forever, and diplomacy and goodwill reign in benevolence and humanity.

As to drugs - given our supposed advanced level of education and opportunity in "the West", can anyone suggest why so many seem to need to use drugs? Why is it so many cannot get their highs from life, without drugs? Social drinking is quite acceptable, and tobacco - though I wish I could it give up - but why the need for the rest? Can it be that our social and formal education systems are somewhat defective in this regard? Or are so many just weak and pitiful? What is the solution to this shocking and escalating problem?

Saltpetre
<As to drugs - given our supposed advanced level of education and opportunity in "the West", can anyone suggest why so many seem to need to use drugs? Why is it so many cannot get their highs from life, without drugs? Social drinking is quite acceptable, and tobacco - though I wish I could it give up - but why the need for the rest? Can it be that our social and formal education systems are somewhat defective in this regard? Or are so many just weak and pitiful? What is the solution to this shocking and escalating problem?.>

Alas, the human condition does not change, despite all our newly acquired knowledge of how things work and all our great inventions we remain the same. We have only acquired knowledge, not a change in our biology.

rehctub
< I said it ten years ago I still say it today.

What should have happened was for the allies to form a syndicate and hire 200 crack pot soldiers, pay them all $1 million up front, then another one mill when both the leaders were captured or killed.
Just think how much better off we would be now, both financially and, how many lives would have been saved.>

I totally agree with your above statement, rehctub. Terrorism is an entirely different kind of war to conventional warfare and it needs to be fought using the same hit and run tatics. Tell that to the civil libertarians and people like Julian Assange who think it's good to reveal state secrets. Much better
for America to carry out a couple of well placed retaliatory strikes than commit to the horrendous deathtoll of all out war. At this point perhaps there might only be a few hundred dead, rather than tens of thousands.

Cherful thinks the Taliban came from Pakistan. They did insofar as they were young men from Afghanistan who received a basic minimalist education there as refugees during the 1980s in the madrassahs, learning about the Wahhabi/Deobandi version of Islam. After the Russians left Afghanistan and the great powers lost interest, the warlords went back to fighting each other again. The Taliban emerged from around Kandahar under Mullah Omar and rapidly took control of the country when people were just sick of war and insecurity. The US had no trouble negotiating with them over oil and gas pipelines but they made the mistake of hosting Osama Bin Laden after he was expelled from Sudan. Following 11/9 (why can't Americans get the date right ?), the US military felt it was easier to target Afghanistan than Saudi Arabia, although of course most of the hijackers were Saudis, and none were Afghans.

Sadly the only reason the ADF is in Afghanistan is because wherever the US military go, we follow, and because John Howard was in Washington on 11/9 so felt this was an appropriate response for Australia to support the USA. As in Viet Nam, the Americans give us a province of our own and of course we are told everything is going well there, but Uruzgan is not the whole country and some of the more recent reports are pretty frank about the reality there.

Wish I could still be around in 2050 or so when we re-evaluate the whole conflict from a historical perspective !