Claiming "the Bible directly and profoundly contributed to the rise of the West", because the West developed when the Bible was around, is the 'cum hoc ergo propter hoc' fallacy ("with this, therefore because of this" - Latin). It is also special pleading for a primary role of one aspect of many societies.

Various individuals saying things like "Christian beliefs provided the rationale, and faith the motive energy for western technology." and "... the biblical worldview was indeed the key to understanding Western technology" does not make those simple declarative statements true.

The emphasis on "Western civilisation" is clutching at a fading notion.

It took a while to realise what the author was writing about - not until the fourth paragraph is the author identified, and the title of Vishal Mangalwadi's book is "The Book that Made YOUR World", or in full "The Book that Made Your World: How the Bible Created the Soul of Western Civilization".

The Bible is responsible for Western science in the same way that smallpox is responsible for vaccination.

I have not read the book under review, and have no special intention of doing so - hence I can only comment on the article itself.
I find it hard to imagine a more contrived load of nonsense, and it comes as no surprise to note the author's background as sketched at the end of the article. The author is clearly used to a compliant and captive audience.
There are far too many non-sequiturs in the article to even begin a comprehensive critique - so many indeed that I find it staggering that the author lays claim to lecturing in philosophy (a discipline that itself owes nothing to the bible)- I would however simply state that if that familiar compendium of myth and legend collectively known as 'the bible' lays claim to all that is good in the world, it must equally lay claim to all that is bad - and there is, has been, and will comntinue to be plenty of that. The fundamental force for such things as universal suffrage, universities, public education, public health, stable government, welfare, organized charity, medical research, clean water supplies, food quality control, and indeed just about anything worthwhile in society is a result, and will continue to be a result, of humanism and enlightened collective effort and owes nothing to fairy tales, nonsensical stories of virgin births, 'spirituality', nor indeed to allegedly miraculous intervention by non-existent gods.

not surprising that since many in the West have rejected the bible we now have the rotten fruit of secularism. Babies are murdered simply for convenience, promiscurity is rife, child sexual abuse common place, divorce common, lawlessness and kids growing up without mum and dad. Not surprisingly when you ignore the Designer you end up with one sick society.

You'll never go poor marketing to Christians.

Reading this article indicates that the author can cheerfully ignore all the progress of mankind prior to the arrival of Christianity. That view ignores Egypt, the Library of Alexandria, the Greek civilisation and the science of Pythagoras and Archimedes etc.

It also ignores the development of agriculture and the domestication of animals.

As for the kinder aspects of human nature, even among our distant relations the baboons, the troup leaders care for the mothers and the young. A case has been reported of a blind pelican being regularly fed by its flockmates. We were human and capable of ethical behaviour well before Christ. I prefer Robert Ardrey's view that we are risen apes rather than fallen angels.

Yes, the Christian religion and its leaders played a part in civilising the barbarian invaders of Europe and in starting educational facilities to teach priests and develop theology but, throughout history the Christian religion and its churches have opposed education and scientific development whenever change extended beyond the very narrow scope of their vision.

We shouldn't overlook the trifling fact that the Islamic world acted as custodians for much ancient knowledge during the Dark Ages in the Christian West. They preserved in their many libraries things like Aristotle's philosophy, Ptolemy's geography, Hippocrates medicine, together with their own advances in astronomy and mathematics.

Nice if we acknowledged our debt to the preservation of these works and to the advancements made by Islamic scholars of the time.

Bill Muehlenberg,
thank you for an interesting review of an apparently not “politically correct” book by a non-Westerner that seems to be worth reading by anybody who still feels culturally part of the West, Christian or post-Christian.

Bill Muehlenberg wrote 'We are all in your debt Vishal Mangalwadi'...

...no...we are not...

we would be if he wrote the book titled...'how homo sapiens(renamed moronus extinctus) squandered time 'self_serving' while ignoring 'gifts of knowledge and understanding' given freely in ancient holy books'...

or even renamed his book to 'how the bible was used to form the tribe called 'christians' whom empowered themselves to 'disrupt to destroy' everything else on earth'

first the knowledge in the bible...take genesis, upto third day of creation god basically says...initially earth was dry and empty, everywhere else was dark, and suspended in water...then created 'suns'(light), darkness/light(spinning of planets), then created space(division of waters) and waters under the expanse collected to form sea on earth...and on...
(science is just now suspecting this...
first appeared here http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature10519.html
now bbc(I renamed british_beasts_corporation) interpreted here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15181123 )

now if we approached the bible as individuals, applied just logic+reason, ignored the organized brain_washing of the religious institutions for benefit...we would have this understanding without any help from science...then read every other holy book, from Koran all the way to Upanishads...imagine the base of knowledge we would have to test and build science on...to knowledge of proper civil conduct, and knowledge of our own soul and its journey in our life...

yes, each of these holy books has great knowledge that is beyond ordinary man of the time to know, let alone write. Its as if god interacted with ancient civilizations in the past with different unique approaches, mayans, egyptians, hindus etc so knowlege presented differently but the same god...currently bible rules as number one...think about that...

sam
about god_human_interaction http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar#Avatars_of_Vishnu as god in human interacting form...from hindu knowledge...

“The book that made the world” - high praise indeed; though how do the Indians and Chinese rate it? And more to the point of world-making: blame that on the printing press - which emerged from China.
From humble beginnings as wood-cut blocks to print cards for games in that mystic East, the concept trickled west for re-surrection in Germany as Gutenberg’s printing press (about 1436). It then spread like a disease - about 40 years later to Caxton in England, and all over Europe.

The printing press ended the sky-pilots’ monopoly of transcribing texts, and their selfl-ascribed right to impose upon society their interpretation of “The Book” (and of pretty much all else). Universities, rate of scientific interchange, public media, -- all came of age.
Expanding away from “The book” has enabled progress away from slavery, and towards modern civilization.

If I may add to Bill's list: another author of Indian descent, Vinoth Ramachandra, makes the same case;
-Rodney Stark as mentioned, 'The Victory of Reason: How Christianity led to Freedom, Capitalism and Western Success';
-Robert Royal's 'The God that Did Not Fail: How Religion Built and Sustains the West';
-David Bentley Hart's Ramsay Prize Winning 'Atheist Delusions: The Christian Revolution and It's Fashionable Enemies';
-2010 Royal Society Prize for science writing James Hannam's 'God's Philosophers: How the Mediaeval World laid the Foundations of Science'.(participant in this forum http://bedejournal.blogspot.com/)

There really is no competition between the Biblical and liberal traditions, one is robust and meets the needs of a human life in all its dimensions, the other is parasitic on Christian civilisation and incoherent in essence.

James Kalb:
"Although in public life the victory of liberalism has been complete, there are millions of dissenters doing their best to live by other views. As we have seen, liberalism is not sufficient on its own to sustain an ordered existence. As liberal societies fall into chaos and tyranny in the coming years the more ordered and comparatively successful ways of life non-liberal views make possible are likely to make them and the communities that adhere to them grow in importance."
http://turnabout.ath.cx:8000/

Articles such as this fascinate me.

Sometimes I think that Graham slots one in every now and then, just to see if anyone has anything new or original to say on the subject. If so, he must be sadly disappointed, as the comments quickly polarize to their respective corners, believers in one, and scoffers in the other.

Trouble is, where the believers can only repeat the same mantra each time, the scoffers have something new to get their teeth into - the manner in which the believer's argument is presented. This gives them a substantial advantage in terms of scoffage, as each presenter provides their own Achilles heel within the piece itself, as they try once more to justify the unjustifiable.

There's plenty to choose from here, but this is my "pick of the day". Mr Muehlenberg writes:

"...here we have a masterful presentation of the data in a finely written and cogently argued volume... he argues that the "Bible was the force that created modern India"

My goodness.

"Modern India" was created from, presumably, old India. So let's take a look.

According to Angus Maddison's "The World Economy: A Millennial Perspective", India was the world's largest economy from the first to the seventeenth centuries. When the British arrived, bible firmly clutched under their sweaty armpits, India boasted a full quarter of the world's GDP, and about the same in terms of manufacturing output, according to the Cambridge Economic History of India.

So if we are to take the claim seriously, the bible alone was responsible for the entire destruction of that economy, which went from 24.4% of the world's GDP in 1700, to a mere 3.8% in 1952.

How can it live with itself, with a record like that?

More likely, though, the whole "masterful presentation of the data in a finely written and cogently argued volume" is a load of horseradish.

Horseradish yuk. When i went to get a pass port i was given the choice of putting a hand on the bible or putting a hand on my chest. Because i have never had a hand on a bible i went for the other. i don't know if you get that choice in court or not. Anyway the world is changing, and about time. Saw Normy Row in concert the other day and he sang It ain't necessarily so. I reckon he has got it right.

Pericles that was a studious commitment to mischaracterising the argument.

Of anyone Mangalwadi understands the thefts of the East Asia Company, and why Hinduism did not produce the culture that could repulse a corrupt colonial power. But sure enough Biblical Christianity was the reason Britain was forced to leave India when Ghandi's non-violent resistance could have affected public opinion in no other civilisation than one with a free press and tradition of Christian anthropology. As indigneous leaders the world over explain: "The Bible (translated by Christians into native languages which preserved their traditions and language) taught us we could at last look the white man in the eye"

We could be here all day listing particular crimes of Christians, it is Christianity more than anything that is actually able to diagnose the corruption in humans and provide the cure "They that are whole have no need of the physician" Mark 2:17. Christianity teaches that humans are corrupt by nature and that Jesus is the long term cure, through a process of transformation not immediate translation into angels.

The thesis presented is that the effects of Christian anthropology and affirmation of the Creator as logos (reason and order), in general on balance and over centuries produces the kinds of institutions and societies that cherish and honour human beings in their essential dignity. In the face of constitutional human corruption. No other tradition can draw from this kind of teaching and it is simply a matter of logical connection of the principles correlative with the Christian tradition to the goods described in Bill Muehlenberg's article.

All around me I see the cancers of modern Western society:

- the abortion epidemic
- drug abuse
- violence (try to find non violent entertainment)
- the "sex" industry
- gambling
- homosexuality

To name but a few. Christian Church attendances are falling and many people not only don't read the bible but openly mock it. Could there be a correlation? Yet the secularists chatter away and pour scorn on Christian values whilst the world around them them falls apart. In fact, many of these "cancers" will be celebrated as "enlightenment" by the very same people. I pity those for whom the obvious is not so obvious.

Ive been asked 'what is the real purpose of all these holy books'...thought I post my best reply...

each of us do what is necessary to live, each and every day...and two groups form...those 'self_serving' whom getting and keeping more satisfies their existence, and the 'others' who sense and seek better meaning to daily existence...

now its important to know which group you are...they are incompatible...individuals of 'other' group should hone their skills at recognizing self-serving individuals, step away first mentally, then physically...or have little hope of further development...
(always remember the self-serving will use anything for benefit, including holy books...)

now we all seek knowledge of; our physical world, ourselves in it...and where we came from, and where we will go...and all this is given in religious books, in various eloquent and cryptic ways...

also remember...whatever information you receive...you must ask 'is it true'...always and repeatedly...this will serve one very well...and keep you on the path of 'truth'...scientist ask this all the time...no excuse for you not to...

so...university is good for information on physical world, life experience for ourselves and religious books particularly for our souls...effort on all aspects of life is necessary...and prevent repetitive responses in daily life...it means you no longer seek but just survive...

for an example...Buddha, sought 'end to suffering'...resulted in 'how to live' knowledge...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gautama_Buddha and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharma
in essence avoid attachments...yep 'want' aka 'self-serving'...see...easy right...and your suffering ends...only thing left to do is to try it...intelligently and practically...god gave you a logic+reasoning brain as well...

to extreme of end_of_time...which we cannot experience until we are in it...but knowledge given...all religions say all we see will end...revelations etc...hindu http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalki_Purana Kali Yuga 'sin and misery'(we now in),Satya Yuga(golden thousand year) 'sinlessness and peace'the 'millenium of thousand years'(see...common time from holybooks from different times and places...which MUST make you think further...)

and you are off on your spiritual and life journey...hope this was useful to any...

sam
Ps~good question now is 'how does one live a sinlessness life...'yeah?

'the 'millenium of thousand years'

for those not familiar with bible revelations...

http://www.rapturechrist.com/timeline.htm

sam

attention all closet communists/atheists or scoffers, it is a well documented, scientifically proven fact that everything in the article & book it is based on is totally correct.

Both Galileo & Darwin were christians. Slavery was abolished by another PROTESTANT christian, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Wilberforce NOT marx, engels, lenin, mao, marcuse or any of the other murderers & corporate paedophiles.

The only omition in the book is that http://books.google.com.au/books?id=b35QNB-c1TIC&dq=gutenberg+revolution&hl=en&ei=3rqPTtTdO6WemQWz1oQs&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDoQ6AEwAA the modern printing press was the catalyst which "kick started" the PROTESTANT christian revolution that "enlightened" & democratised the first world.

The universal truths, philosophies & principles of christianity, always were in the bible, the printing press made them more widely available to "proletariat" christians who were emancipated, or "set free" by truth & evolved into PROTESTANT christians.

"the truth, the whole truth & nothing but the truth" is always the exact opposite of everything the completely, totally, utterly, evil, devil worshipping, loony left wing politicians think, say & do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Engels was in the same masonic lodge as this guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Weishaupt who REALLY wrote the original manifesto as a "counter revolutionary" scheme to try & stop PROTESTANT christianity from democratising the world. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marx & engels only updated the rhetoric, as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Hawker does today.

Are we "moving forwards" yet?

Formersnag,

"Are we "moving forwards" yet?"

No, we're far to busy rolling about on the floor, wracked with uncontrollable mirth at the absurd rants of crazy people.

PS:
Thanks. Up until a few minutes ago I'd been having a pretty bad day, but now I'll probably still be giggling come lunch-time tomorrow.

Ummmm... Formersnag, hello?

I think you may have provided, with that one post, substantial ammunition for those who suspect that the bible has a corrupting effect on the minds of a susceptible portion of our population.

May I suggest that you quit before you do too much more damage to the reputation of Christianity.

Pericles,

I know far too many sane Christians (a lot of my friends and family) to tar all Christians with the same brush as the nutcases. The reputation of Christianity is quite safe; although the reputation of the nutters has become somewhat more laughable.

That "without the Judeo-Christian worldview, there would be no Western civilisation as we know it" is undoubtedly true.

But critical to understanding our culture is that it arose out of rebellion against "priest and king" and is radically antichristian and anti the biblical worldview. You cannot just look at what is influenced by that worldview in a positive way. You also have to consider those aspects of modernism that are totally opposed to it.

Failure to do that has led people like Bill Muehlenberg to link Christianity with worldly (I use the word in the biblical sense) right wing politics which has policies that are all too often the enemy of the truth and justice that the biblical worldview espouses. From a Christian point of view, there is little of significant difference between the extremes of right and left politics.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=12709#219637
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=12709#219665
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=12709#219673

TAR & Pericles, please dont believe me, read the history books, do the research yourself.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8630135369495797236#

http://www.academia.org/the-origins-of-political-correctness/

these 2 are a little hint or taste of truth to start you on your way.

http://isohunt.com/torrent_details/133691601/?tab=summary free PDF download of a great "follow the money" book about how evil "capitalists" plan to continue oppressing the proletariat, by training fools like you to oppress yourselves.

Ever since 1972 Comrades Whitlam, Hawke, Keating, Krudd & Dillard have been killing Australian Small & Medium business in favour of an ever reducing number of multi national, mega corporations or Coca Cola Communazism.

Please explain?

Agree with Bill Muchlenberg's excellent review of Mangawaldi's book, except the wording "transforms individual human beings...."

Things are transformed inasmuch as one looks at things (or oneself) differently.

There is nothing new under the Sun. The only thing is new is the way we look at (or understand) things. For example: - gravity always existed. It was only Newton who put it into explainable, clear, and very useful equations.

Havent read the book but it looks like a ripper, if this review is anything to go by.

Edwin Judge's interviews on cpx are a great place for a well informed but simpler introduction to this topic. ( http://publicchristianity.org/library/person/Edwin-Judge/ )

Christianity no doubt helped develop crucial aspects of Western Culture to where they are, but I wonder how the future will pan out? Peter Kreeft asks the same question in his book The Philosophy of Jesus, page 118:

"No culture in history has ever embraced moral relativism and survived. Our own culture, therefore, will either (1) be the first, and disprove history's clearest lesson, or (2) persist in its relativism and die, or (3) repent of its relativism and live. There is no other option."

Nice quote, Trav. But it doesn't stand up to a great deal of scrutiny.

>>"No culture in history has ever embraced moral relativism and survived. Our own culture, therefore, will either (1) be the first, and disprove history's clearest lesson, or (2) persist in its relativism and die, or (3) repent of its relativism and live. There is no other option."<<

May be you could give an example of a culture that rejects moral relativism, and has survived. Or perhaps you might take a more positive approach, and point to a civilization that has not survived, due to its moral relativism.

Either way, I believe your argument falls heavily at the first fence - the one that says "fine words. But show me".