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The Forum > Article Comments > Britain's recent riots have given much food for thought on the racial tensions present in Australia. > Comments

Britain's recent riots have given much food for thought on the racial tensions present in Australia. : Comments

By Tanveer Ahmed, published 5/10/2011

If white people are constantly told how culturally different their Asian or black neighbours are, and if Asians and blacks are told to be vigilant against white racism, all groups might conclude that they have little in common.

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Thank you for publishing this very thoughtful and useful article. Let's hope some of the habitual OLO commenters with entrenched views about race read it carefully before they pick up their drums and begin their tribal chants to re-display their prejudices. It is high time that most of them re-considered their positions, and dropped their campaigns in support of their simplistic beliefs about race, history and religion. This author shows us the value of thinking as against resort to prejudice, cliches and slogans.
Posted by Dan Fitzpatrick, Wednesday, 5 October 2011 9:08:59 AM
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One of the better articles about race relations on OLO. Thank you.

Your very astute observation and comments about constantly being reminded about racial differences rather than our similarities rings true. It is counterproductive. One example is the response to threats of banning items of women's clothing, all it does is get people's noses out of joint and encourages the wearing of scarves/burkas just to make a statement, many of the women having already decided not to don the 'offending' robes prior to the perceived slight on their religion or culture. I reckon cultures and ethnic groups eventually work these things out for themselves especially in later generations.

The article reminded me of the Michael Jackson impersonation discussions. One of the anomalies of race relations is the fact that it is considered racist to mimic a darker skinned person even in good faith. This protective attitude could be construed as racist in essence because it is implying darker skinned people are 'lesser' and thus cannot be mimicked even in humour. The out of proportion response to the Red Faces skit and more recently the mimicking of your favourite footballer (much to the footballer's own delight) was deemed racist or at best 'unwise'.

There is no similar backlash to mimicking of white celebrities or white races and many such as the Irish often take the mickey out of themselves.

Perhaps the true test of tolerance will be when there is no longer any outrage after one of these humourous episodes, when all manner of races and ethnicities can be mocked equally. A sign of real acceptance in Australia's egalitarian, secular and still slightly larrikin culture.
Posted by pelican, Wednesday, 5 October 2011 9:33:00 AM
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Australia's egalitarian, secular and still slightly larrikin culture.
pelican,
you're showing your age now, I recall it being like this about 40 years ago, before this great attribute was hijacked by the loony left & its supporters.
Posted by individual, Wednesday, 5 October 2011 9:44:48 AM
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Until the majority of the population can swipe aside the blinds & look straight through the feigning indignation crowd we'll have to put up with the nonsense. Open your eyes & mind to reality rather than reality Tv & all will get better.
Posted by individual, Wednesday, 5 October 2011 10:03:20 AM
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Tanveer,The elites use racial differences to keep us confused and divided while they rip us off via Wall St scams and creating our increases growth and inflation as debt.

The boat people scare is a just a distraction.Far more illegals arrive here on a plane with a passport.The real issue is the theft of our wealth via this debt based monetary creation system.New money to equal our productivity + inflation should not be expressed as debt.This means that the more growth we have,the more debt we incur.This is why there are riots all around the planet.See 'Secret of Oz' by Bill Still.
Posted by Arjay, Wednesday, 5 October 2011 11:09:02 AM
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Perhaps using the historical issues of colour and ethnic difference as a basis for invoking exceptional consideration is being replaced.
Perhaps the new delineation is wealth.
Health care, education and housing are now joined by access to healthy food and clean water as items whose cost separate us.
This is world-wide. Ethnic differences might be noticeable in countries like England and Australia, but the poor in China's urban slums are Chinese, and in Africa are Africans.
Religion plays an increasing divisive role. Islam gets more bad press than Judaism, but the difference between their fundamentalists is hard to pick. Christianity has its intolerant evangelists, and militant Hindus are not unknown.
I think we are all scared of an increasingly uncertain future so we try to band together, to form tribes. These can cut across skin lines, and even across creeds, much easier than across divides in wealth.
Perhaps within both the haves and the have-nots, it matters less what you look like, or even what you believe, than whether or not you are a have or a have-not.
Posted by halduell, Wednesday, 5 October 2011 11:28:27 AM
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Agree substandard performance results are due poor parenting, failed educating, peer-group pressure - both upon students and parents, and an inability to accept responsibility for own behaviour.

Why reward substandard performance results ?

Biggest problem is very poor government - with government so busy measuring the flavor participation than actual results.

Those who achieve education for selves or children become subjects of institutional racism - mostly from within own communities :-(

Those failing exams do so because they do not do the homework, do not pay attention when needed, are disrespectful to teachers indeed anyone whether in authority positions or better educated.

Instead of challenging these core issues, government grossly and repeatedly concentrates on making victims feel better whilst remaining victims.

Many communities retain problems by denial to those who seek improve things - for selves or community, are denied basic tools to do so like valid leases.

Without valid leases many communities restrict residents ability to protect "their homes", still deny them otherwise basic rights like the right to have their own visitors without needing wide-town approval, without such leases how do they achieve stability to develop how they wish to develop ?

Without such leases who is prepared to risk their own money to improve things ?

Until all the corporate land trusts held to same accountability as other corporate landlords little will improve, government still expected foot bill$ for everything...

Those who educate themselves for a future will leave their communities to achieve their future...
Posted by polpak, Wednesday, 5 October 2011 12:29:06 PM
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Dan, thanks for your views on censorship of people whose views you disagree with .. no thanks, OK?

"This author shows us the value of thinking as against resort to prejudice, cliches and slogans." and attempts at censorship by bullying.
Posted by Amicus, Wednesday, 5 October 2011 1:57:40 PM
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Excellent article Tanveer, thank you. It's pretty difficult to capture the complexity of this issue in an opinion piece but you've succeeded!

I just think we think of the concept of racism quite differently here than people do in the UK and Europe. I've always thought that Australians generally don't have a problem with race - it's simply not the first thing Australians think about when they think about other people. Identity "markers" (and I guess it's debatable whether there is such a thing or how significant they are) such as where you live, your profession, whether you attach yourself to some sort of social subculture/religion, gender even, are far more salient than is "race" - which I would almost say is a non-word in Australia. We just don't use it, except when talking about racism.

However in the UK, where I've spent a bit of time, I just found that race differentiation was everywhere. People would go to great pains either to emphasise, deny, or over-compensate for it. When you apply for a job in the UK, you're presented with an "equal opportunity" form to fill out, which asks whether you are (in this order) white/Anglo, black/African/Caribbean, Arab/Middle Eastern, "Asian" (meaning India/Pakistan/Bangladesh/Sri Lanka), "Chinese", or "other Asian". Supposedly this is in the interests of ensuring that a person's background doesn't influence selection, or even that the right "mix" is achieved, but is one example of how the concept of race is just in your face all the time. And in France, wow, the quite significant Middle-Eastern and north African communities are quite blatantly treated as second-class citizens.

And I think it is through this lens that the "racism" in Australia is perceived. I was gobsmacked to hear at a public lecture at the LSE, an expert on China describe Australia as a "very racist country" - But I think this perception stems from the fact that the UK views China-Australia relations primarily through the lens of race, whereas we would describe the difficulties we have in doing business with China as stemming from disparate political and cultural systems.
Posted by Sam Jandwich, Wednesday, 5 October 2011 3:29:57 PM
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And before anyone is tempted to say so, yes I am aware of the irony of speaking about "Australians" and "British" in generalised terms, but it must be said, the Brits are completely potty!
Posted by Sam Jandwich, Wednesday, 5 October 2011 3:31:18 PM
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Good article.
A couple of points on a subject from the post of which I have some direct knowledge:
I've asked a lot of people about the Indian student attacks in Melbourne and from what I can gather they were a lot more frequent,more serious and reprisals by Indians against other groups were also a problem.
The author identifies several of the factors involved but from what I gather the attacks were also being carried out by otherwise "respectable" people from Middle Eastern and African backgrounds, the reason?
Indian students were driving down prices for labour on construction sites and in the courier, Taxi and hospitality industries by working illegally for as little as $40 a day.
Third world migrants rely to a large extent on these unskilled and casual jobs to support their families, they took exception to fly by night Indians taking away their income and wrecking the labour market.
I've heard stories of Indian cab drivers being dragged from their cars and bashed by other drivers at Taxi ranks, a big all in brawl at the airport between African and Indian drivers and reprisals including a stabbing by Indians.
There's a tendency by White Australians to take an "orientalist" view of Indians, to a lot of people they are meek little fellows with a side parting, a knitted vest and an amusing accent.
The young men who made up the bulk of the Indian "student" body were behaving much like men of any race do when their mothers, wives and siters are far away...running amok, getting drunk, fighting, harassing young women and generally aggravating their neighbours.
Given that these poor areas are home to many very conservative, religious and in some ways chauvinistic migrants conflict was inevitable.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Wednesday, 5 October 2011 3:58:02 PM
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Sam Jandwhich,

I resent the implication that the Brits are 'completely potty'. The British have contributed more to the betterment of mankind than any nationality I can think of. Mind you, the English are an entirely different story :-P
Posted by The Acolyte Rizla, Wednesday, 5 October 2011 4:08:05 PM
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where I come from the most common racism seems to come from some of our first people who tell the Africans and Asians to go home in no uncertain terms if they fail to give them $2.
Posted by runner, Wednesday, 5 October 2011 4:15:46 PM
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Arjay
"the elites" aren't the whole story, and generalising about them without substantiating your argument is as pointless as making wide-ranging assertions about most other things. And asylum seekers are not "illegals".

halduell: you make a great deal of sense.

Polpak: you wander into your obsession without explaining the turn you have made. Most won't be able to follow your twist from the general to the Aboriginal specific (re leases). It just doesn't make sense without the context.

Amicus (by name, but not by nature): you are as disingenuous as ever. Dan was clearly not advocating censorship. Reducing an appeal for thoughtfulness to an allegation of such advocacy is either dumb, or a malicious attempt at bullying - a behaviour with which you yourself may possibly be somewhat familiar.
Posted by Robert Patrick, Wednesday, 5 October 2011 6:52:02 PM
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Robert Patrick,Those who create the new money to equal increases in productivity + population + inflation have the real power,since both our Govts and businesses are beholding to their money creation powers.That is the reality.

The US Fed,Wall St,IMF,BIS,World Bank have all a hand in this scam.The US Congress has all its money supplied by these elite cartels who are answerable to no one.This is why the world is in such chaos.
Posted by Arjay, Wednesday, 5 October 2011 7:46:58 PM
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Arjay,
You're right and he's wrong, just remember that you and I have spent years reading up on the subject of the elites, it's almost an occult lore in itself, most people don't have the time or the inclination to read, much less join all the dots.
The elites are "full spectrum", they have a finger in every pie and operate on all levels including the occult and the metaphysical, it takes a broad understanding of a range of disciplines to be able to assimilate all the information.
Some info for beginners.

http://gizadeathstar.com/farrell/international-bankers-ancient-religion-alchemy-physics/
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Thursday, 6 October 2011 6:11:15 PM
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Jay Of Melbourne,see http://www.wearechange.org/ I met Luke Rudowski its founder in Nov 2009 here in Sydney.See the Wall St protests and the NYPD mace and bash him.The protests are growing and are far wider than the elite want to admit.In all reality they are crapping their pants.War will be their solution.

The presstitutes are not reporting the truth.There are rumours of some of the military going down there to help the protestors.Let's hope.
Posted by Arjay, Thursday, 6 October 2011 7:47:45 PM
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Thanks Arjay,
War is always their solution, Pakistan is next cab off the rank, look at all the hoo-hah over the "Haqqani" network.
This goes way back but the most modern, recognisable template they use is the "Next Hitler" scenario.
There's always "Another Hitler" denying people their "democratic" rights and his minions who "Behave like Brownshirts on Kristallnacht".
There are always atrocity stories, like the "Viagra" rape squads in Libya or Saddam's "Human Shredding Machine" because people are conditioned by the image of "Another Hitler"to to accept such nonsense.
I'm not a Holocaust denier but the wild, unrealistc atrocity stories such as "Human Soap" led directly to the "Viagra Squads" propaganda tactics we see today.
The problem is that people die because of these lies.
It ties into what Tanveer said, Anti Racism can be as disruptive as Racism if it's based on misinformation or false perceptions.
People (especially Indians) believed that there were gangs of "White Racists" stalking the suburbs rolling students but as we know the "Gangs" are multicultural.
I've seen plenty of White hoodlums roaming the street in large gangs but they're always in company with hoodlums of other races.
The other day I witnessed a gang attack in Strathmore, 30 youths of White, Islander and Lebanese background armed with tree stakes, baseball bats and other makeshift weapons were chasing two other kids, one White one Asian.
Then a few days later I heard the rival gang caught up with the attackers and two kids ended up in hospital.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Friday, 7 October 2011 5:45:56 AM
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You guys are a hoot.

>>The elites are "full spectrum", they have a finger in every pie and operate on all levels including the occult and the metaphysical, it takes a broad understanding of a range of disciplines to be able to assimilate all the information.<<

Of course it does, Jay Of Melbourne, of course it does.

Thank goodness we have you and Arjay working tirelessly to scour the internet for the incredible revelations by all the dedicated nutjobs who keep an eye out for these pesky elites. Where would we be without you, I wonder.

Oh sorry. Did I say nutjobs, I really meant...

Actually, that will do nicely.
Posted by Pericles, Friday, 7 October 2011 7:31:50 AM
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Incidentally...

>>The other day I witnessed a gang attack in Strathmore, 30 youths of White, Islander and Lebanese background armed with tree stakes, baseball bats and other makeshift weapons were chasing two other kids, one White one Asian. Then a few days later I heard the rival gang caught up with the attackers and two kids ended up in hospital.<<

I don't believe you.

Don't ask me why. It's just intuition.
Posted by Pericles, Friday, 7 October 2011 7:34:29 AM
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Pericles...ah what's the point...the author points out that these "Gangs" are multicultural, I add an anecdote which backs that conclusion and you get all catty about it because you don't like what Arjay and I think about other matters.
To borrow a phrase from my teenage daughter, "Real mature Dad"...followed by the rolling of the eyes.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Friday, 7 October 2011 2:28:38 PM
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Pericles in denial yet again.The Bankster fraud is up Pericles and the people are becoming aware.
Posted by Arjay, Friday, 7 October 2011 8:59:49 PM
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Oh boy! There are so many assumptions in this article that I think are just based on incorrect ideas about the underlying reasons for racial discord.

I do however admire Transveers faith in Australian ethnic communities to buck world trends and come together cohesively and I found myself liking him and his article for that reason.

The one thing he said that fills me with hope and optimism for the future in multicultural Australia is this:-

<I would argue that our most important statistic, one that particularly separates us from Britain, is that we have the highest rate of mixed marriage in the world, according to a study by Professor Bob Birrell at Monash University in 2010. This shows our ethnic communities are less likely to cluster into so-called ghettos and then pass on a siege mentality to future generations.>

I do disagree with this statement however:-
<The notion of race, which lacks a biological authority but is a powerful cultural and social category, stirs the primitive within us. Our survival instincts have created an innate fear of difference.>

In fact so called racism is totally biologically driven, it is about protection of bloodline at the biological survival level.

Racism is as a cough is to the flu, it is an outward symptom, characterized by displays of hostility and aggression, that comes from a much deeper and more deadly instinct that is seen right across the animal kingdom and it is called territorial hostility in biological, scientific studies, and not racial hostility as it is mistakenly called when humans do it. It is one of the two big survival instincts imbued by nature in every species, being:- the sexual instinct and the territorial instinct.

Put plainly; the mixing of bloodlines, high rates of mixed marriage, will ensure a cohesive peaceful future in Australia. Tribalism, that is forming huge non intregrated tribes will lead to conflict sooner or later.

However the statistics from the Monash University above regarding the level of mixed marriage in Australia is a reason for much optimism in a peaceful future.
Posted by CHERFUL, Saturday, 8 October 2011 10:21:24 PM
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Cherful, yeah the rate of interracial partnering cited in that study is high by world standards but it's still only 3.5% of White Australian and 0.4% of non White, non Indigenous Australians as a percentage of the whole.
It's true that the percentage is higher than the U.S for example,where the rates were less than 2% last time I looked.
I don't know what hope you hold out based on those figures, ethnic consolidation is what's preventing widespread conflict, assimilation is causing the problems.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Sunday, 9 October 2011 4:53:54 PM
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There is a natural scepticism about a migrant, whatever their origine, or whichever country they happen to be in. This natural misgiving can be greatly exacerbated if large numbers of migrants live in the same neighbourhood, not communicating adequately with the local population, and insisting on their often exagerated form of customs. Scepticism is nothing to do with racism, unless one accuses the Japenese of racism against the Koreans, the Pakistanis against the Europeans, or the Africans against the Chinese.
Posted by Istvan, Monday, 10 October 2011 6:23:18 PM
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Jay Of Melbourne

Cherful, yeah the rate of interracial partnering cited in that study is high by world standards but it's still only 3.5% of White Australian and 0.4% of non White, non Indigenous Australians as a percentage of the whole.
It's true that the percentage is higher than the U.S for example,where the rates were less than 2% last time I looked.
I don't know what hope you hold out based on those figures, ethnic consolidation is what's preventing widespread conflict, assimilation is causing the problems.

Well, those figures don't sound that high for highest in the world, paints a pretty dismal picture for race relations world wide.

Refusing to marry outside one's tribe is, when all is said and done the ultimate act of racism.

When you say <that ethnic consolidation is what's preventing widespread conflict, assimilation is causing the problems.> Do you mean that because
at moment the different ethnic groups appear to be living together in cultural harmony that they are accepting each others culture and this is preventing widespread conflict.

This is true for the time being,but I think this is an uneasy truce with underlying territorial hostilities still below the surface.

Without bloodline assimilation , then dampening down differences is all we have to try to avoid conflict. The timeframe for how long this will be successful is not predictable. The two tribes in Rwanda were getting along well on the surface too, they were neighbours and friends apparently, until the numbers got too big and one tribe started to feel territorially threatened. It's the perceived territorial or (economic)threat that will always trigger the fighting.
Posted by CHERFUL, Tuesday, 11 October 2011 1:05:08 AM
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