Yabby,

I understand the point your are making about population. But you seem to ignore the proposition that calculations using a universal figure for resource use per person is an not an accurate yardstick. If an American has two children then his offspring will use the equivalent resources per hectare of 16 people in the developing world.

Btw, I'm fascinated by your measuring stick for a viable and sustainable way of living...mobile phones and ipads.
India has one of the worst scores on the Global Hunger Index, so judging a country's affluence using that particular model is a trite misleading - perhaps they've got their priorities a little askance in their rush to emulate Westerners

Look, America's broke. It's broke 3 times over. It's allowed to PRINT Mickey Mouse money to buy overseas goods services, properties, commodities, farmland, rivers, power stations and mines to grow its economy.

The question is: I'm broke because my dollar is at parity with America's Mickey Mouse dollar: so why am I a criminal if I Print Dollar bills to do the same things?

Printing money to solve debt when you have a nuclear arsenal to back it up is JUST STEALING!

It's THEFT. And no amount of historical goodwill will ever make up for the crimes against humanity that the US of A is inflicting on Australia and every other nation as we speak.

If I were a politiTian and could pass laws to DOUBLE my salary to make up for American Larceny of Australia's natural bounty then I would probably remain silent on the matter as well.

The trick is, if we ever get REAL AUSSY politicians, for them to refuse to sell any Australian goods to the US AND to BUY up real assets in the US with US$ funny money bills. That way when the whole global economy crashes, we will be holding all the REAL ESTATE and the US will be holding all OUR useless dollar bills.

But how to get rid of the legions of Welsh, english, chinese, lesbian and southern Euro-trash that are infesting Canberra and all the state goverments?
I'll leave that one to YOU!

But it is worth noting that these one-step-up-from boat-people so-called-politicians are a bloody disgrace and their only representative capability is in selling every asset in this country to their FAVOURITE Foreigners for a pittance while taxing Australians more & more each day to cover the inevitable losses.

In light of KAEP's input..."Welsh, chinese, lesbian,and southern-Euro trash" etc, etc, I think this thread is just about done for me...but, Yabby, I'm sure you'll enjoy having the last word : )

Poirot, of course I'll have the last word :)

The thing is, just because we use resources, does not mean that
its unsustainable. I can use water, it can be recycled. I can
use steel, copper, etc, it can be recycled. I can buy newspapers,
they can be recycled. But if I go out hunting in the forest and
eat the last of the wild bonobos, they cannot be replaced, once they
are gone. So how we affect the planet is far more complex then
simply what resources that we consume.

If some are starving in India, blame Indians, not me dear.

Yabby,
clearly you never read this fascinating link http://tinyurl.com/3go6qj5 I provided in another thread.
The trouble with OLO is there too many settled opinions.
My views are familiar to me and open to challenge here, and I'm grateful to anyone who shows me my errors. I show others their errors, or at least what's questionable, and they resent it. It's about time people realised that whatever is intuitive or comfortable is probably wrong.

Ah Squeers, no I had not read your link. The old energy chestnut.

The 800 page book I'm working through right now makes it clear
that we are not about to run out just yet, it will just get a bit
more expensive, so Bazz can relax. But yes, at some point we'll have
to address energy and rely on something like the sun.

Which brings us back to the key issue, ie in 100 years the human
population, on the back of cheap oil, has gone from 1.5 billion to
7 billion, increasing at another billion every 12 years. Its not
sustainable, so eventually its going to crash one day and nature
will sort it out, just as Darwin predicted. I've accepted that
long ago.