Philo,

With your comment about natural acts did you prove my point 100%? You once again neglected the other things that go to make up a healthy relationship.

Thinking and non-discriminatory behaviour are natural to me... but are they natural to you?

I don't think I would lecture on nature if I were you Philo!

Is bigotry natural behaviour?

Your God must be so proud of you...Philo!

If you believe homosexuality to be a sin.... Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone...

Oh so you aren't a sinner Philo? Another epic fail!

Extending an olive branch to those Christians amongst us, I wanted to show why oppressing homosexuals and being against homosexual marriage is a questionable decision from a Christian perspective.

Let’s use the Creation story...Genesis 3:1-6...http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Genesis+3%3A1-6&version1=9

According to your Bibles GOD created the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and placed it in the garden.

GOD is OMNISCIENT. He knows all the things we have done past, in the present and in the future.

So GOD KNEW that Adam and Eve would eat the fruit…GOD is OMNISCIENT.

The only conclusion that can be drawn from this is that GOD wanted you to have a thinking mind! He wanted you to be knowledgeable!

To blame Eve & the snake is simply illogical! But that is what the Bible does...so why do you believe that? Either GOD isn't OMNISCIENT or the Bible is wrong here!

Allegedly Moses wrote the first 5 books of the Bible....Moses was a man, he had failings!...He was not a model citizen!

In fact, in Numbers 31:13-18...if the Bible is true...allegedly with your GOD's blessing Moses invented ethnic cleansing!....http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Numbers+31%3A13-18&version1=9

You can’t just ignore these bits without asking yourselves...Would my GOD allow this?

If your answer is yes, My GOD would allow this, I pity you!

If you answered NO…CONGRATULATIONS! Something must be wrong!

So if Moses was wrong here and in many other of the stories can we rely on his laws.

The answer is NO! If GOD is truly loving…Moses couldn’t represent GOD in condoning stonings...killings...slavery...selling your children...etc.

So could Moses be wrong on homosexuals?

If he is wrong then you & your religion discriminating against homosexuals could also be wrong and you may be breaking many of Jesus' laws you are supposed to hold true.

Do unto others Matthew 7:12....http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Matthew+7%3A12&version1=9

Do not judge… Matthew 7:1-5…http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Matthew+7%3A1-5+&version1=9…

Casting the first stone…John 8:7…http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=John+8%3A7+&version1=9etc.

Something for people to consider!

Remember Matthew 20:16...http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Matthew+20%3A16&version1=9

"So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen."

Simply put....if you are doing unto others...you can't really object to homosexual marriage...Can you?

Opinionated2

There is a variety of views in Christianity, and the naive literalism you assume is not uncommon but it is also not the norm in mainstream churches.

For the record, I’m a Christian who worships weekly in a suburban Anglican church. I support gay rights including gay marriage, and you won’t be surprised to know I agree with much of what you say.

I believe the Eden story is an allegory on the things that make us unique as humans – self-awareness, anticipation of our own mortality, moral consciousness, and a sense that humanity and human life fall short of what they could, and should be.

I think we are created in God’s image – male and female, gay and straight. To deny or suppress a person’s sexuality is a fundamental attack on their dignity and identity which is not consistent with the universal and inclusive message of the Bible.

Christians are called to identify with the marginalised and oppressed. It saddens me greatly that so often we’re the ones who marginalise and oppress.

Rhian,

Firstly congratulations on your reply...You sound most reasonable in your opinions.

Now as to "naive literalism" as you put it. I am anything but naive or literal. That is simply a judgement on your part that is wrong.

I just quoted the Bible...either it is inerrant or religions aren't telling the truth...

But I don't want to argue with you on these points.

I think you present as very reasoned and I am somewhat impressed with your reply.

Hi Rhian,

As I was re-reading through this thread when I suddenly realised that you weren't calling me "naively literal" and I apologise for misreading your comment.

You made no judgement of me!

My experience in Churches is that literalism reigns supreme...but I will take your word for it, in your Church at least.

I am really impressed. I think your answer made my day.

Reasonableness is really lovely to hear!

Thanks opinionated2
I was dradfting response when I saw your second post.

To expand a bit ...

The Gospels don’t mention homosexuality. We can’t infer from that Jesus either approved or disapproved of it, but we can conclude that Jesus and the Gospel writers didn’t think it a high priority.

Most modern Christians, not only don’t feel bound by ancient Jewish rules on everything from clothing to cooking, but also feel there is no contradiction in rejecting these prescriptions. We recognise that the bible contains the national myths of the Jewish people and don’t accept that God encourages genocide and infanticide.

The problem with this, as the fundamentalists (or “naive literalists”) rightly identify, is that when we’re free to pick and choose the bits of the Bible we feel bound by, we can simply cherry pick the bits we like to suit ourselves.

I think the answer to this lies in the New Testament itself. The measure by which we judge as Christians how we interpret law and behaviour is the dual law of love – love God, and love our neighbours as ourselves. Jesus said this is the foundation of God’s law, and this is the framework which should determine our behaviour and choices.

In my view oppressing, marginalising and demeaning homosexuals is to break the law of love, not to uphold it.