I think this thread has sunk to a bit of a new low for OLO, though I don't blame Squeers for the initial searching entree into this sensitive area of human interraction. Still, nuff said.

In our wild erratic fancy, is't what we do, and have done in our lives which defines us; or is't who we are which defines the choices we make and have made, and possibly will make in the future?

As youth is the experimental, anti-establishment, and boundary-pushing age, and probably responsible for a significant part of the vocal thrust for gay marriage rights, can this be an issue for the elders to roll over on, or rather for older heads to draw the line? I realise of course that these days the "elders" carry little weight, and the "bright sparks" carry the burden of generating future direction and inspiration, but have the reins been loosed perhaps a little too far at this point?

I have the distinct impression that a win for gay rights on this particular issue would achieve very little for the majority of gays, and the masses would simply move quickly on to the next "burning" issue - more or less akin to the stampede to get the latest techno must-have, or Christmas toy, or ruby-red slippers. We seem to be in an age of whim, of protest for the sake of being seen, of joining-in so as not to stand out, and of stirring the pot just to see what will fall out. I may be wrong of course. (Where are the sages when you need them?)

There have always been tear-aways, and always will be I guess, and conformity is such an incredible bore, albeit our society and stability are founded on it. Pretty soon we'll all be speaking Chinese anyway, so does it really rate, in the scheme of things? Or, do we need to wake up and attend more conscientiously to what really matters? Time will tell.

Saltpetre,

It's the tear-aways and those willing to look outside the box that have enabled humanity to progress. If we all just conformed and no-one thought of other ways to do things, we'd still be sitting in a cold cave picking through (raw) bones.

It's not the end of civilisation as you know it...it's just humans demonstrating their ability to push the boundaries.

Poirot, superciliousness does not sit well on the vitae, monsieur. One should not presume that those who are working (conforming and producing), and hence unable to attend rallies for serious causes, either don't comprehend or don't care. Babes in arms may have moved Bob Brown and then Bob Hawke to save the Gordon on Franklin, but what popular movement induced Paul Keating to float the $A, and how many 20-somethings have discovered a vaccine or treatment for cancer, or whatever? Uni students are expected to rally, but is it likely that "Occupy Wall Street" will actually achieve anything? Noise is fine, but pray give the real adults their due. The serious youth are not those cavorting on Facebook, but those designing its replacement, the Steve Jobbs' and Bill Gates' of the world.

We live in individual caves now, and, with rare and pressing exceptions the only long-houses now are parliaments or AA meetings. We have lost the contact, the community, but youth still carry the instinct for group collaboration, and credit to them for that and for action on the environment and whales.

We may be meek and self-absorbed, but we shouldn't abbrogate our responsibility for the broader social structure just because we have other priorities and are caught up in the modern (constructed) struggle for individual survival and self actualisation.

We may vote alone, and stand alone, but when it comes to gay marriage let a plebiscite decide (or ratify), and not some conscience vote by people who don't even come close to representing a genuine cross-section of the Australian community.