In the 1920's the Bradfield scheme already had the foresight to plan for sustainability but as per australian standard when a smart australian has a good idea it was & still is knocked on the head.

"Is an Ipad or an Ipod just mindless junk for instance? Is your
computer just mindless junk?"

I see what you're saying Yabby and "mindless junk" might be a simple over statement, but the world produces so much 'stuff' that we really don't need. Humanity is becoming so disconnected from the reality of resource constraints which is made easier by the seemingly limitless imagination of wizz-kids inventing more and more ways of blinding us to our fate.

From my perspective, I class mindless junk as anything unnecessary to sustaining life. Do we really need I-pods, I-phones and all the other paraphernalia corporations keep coming up with to fleece us of our money? My parents got along just fine without a fridge, a phone and a fancy car. Why does a person feel it necessary to have a mobile phone almost permanently connected to their ear? I have one that I keep only for emergencys. Yes, I do occasionally text to someone who first texts me, but I never use it for conversations and don't give out my number freely. Even my workplace doesn't have it. I simply keep it with me in case I break down in my 1990 car without airbags and computers.

As for my home computer, I use it because I can but could just as easily do without it, but then Yabby, I couldn't send nice thoughts in your direction :-)

*From my perspective, I class mindless junk as anything unnecessary to sustaining life.*

Well Aime, for me there is more to life then simply sustaining it,
but that is just me. I quite like having a fridge, a computer and
even an Ipad!

Like you I'm not a mobile phone fan, but I accept that others have
a different perspective on life, so its not for me to judge them
about how important their mobile phone is or is not to them.

I actually see things made of metals a little different, many just
throw everything into the "resources" bin, without separation.
Metals like aluminium, iron and copper can all be recycled and used
again at some later stage, so why should I object to using them in
the meantime? That is still sustainable.

For me its about ecosystems and our lack of understanding in how
they function, the ocean being a perfect example. In the ocean things
are interlinked in ways that we ignore, so we land up plundering them
rather then using them sustainably. We kept fishing cod until there
were simply none left. The list is endless. The other day I saw
a programme about Japan, where many Japanese fishing villages are
collapsing, because when they go out trawling, all they get are
masses of Nomura jellyfish. Now baby jellyfish are in fact great
fishfood for some species, but if you plunder those species enough,
they won't be around to eat those baby jellyfish, which eventually
grow into monsters, as is happening now. We are doing the same in
rainforests, plundering them for bushmeat, until there is simply
nothing left. Taking the surplus is sustainable, plundering is not.
But it seems we need to learn the hard way, as the Japanese are
doing now

Sorry Yabby. Missed your reply post as I've been on night shift the past couple of days and haven't been near the computer much.

I'm not really judging people. I don't care what they buy as long as they use it in a manner respectable to others within earshot, unlike the idiot truck driver (I found that out from his conversation and how he missed out on a run) who, in a supermarket I happened to also be in, used his mobile to rant and rave about said missed drive and how much he hated the yard boss. His language was absolutely disgusting and I'm no old prude!

Then you get the woman who's children have just rung to get her to buy all manner of snack foods. She walks up and down the isles explaining in a loud voice why they can't have them and that she's not buying them. Eventually she wilts and makes a compromised purchase for the little toe-rags. Surely it would be easier if she turned the damned thing off before the little bathplugs rang? But, I guess some people just love the sound of their own voice!

Of course, people buy all this stuff because corporations say the should. They use clever marketing to convince people we need to use up what's left of the world's resources at an alarming rate, but I will admit that I really shouldn't judge people for being gullible fools!

*Of course, people buy all this stuff because corporations say the should. They use clever marketing to convince people we need to use up what's left of the world's resources at an alarming rate, but I will admit that I really shouldn't judge people for being gullible fools!*

Aime, I think you are claiming far too much power for corporations,
for despite their best efforts, most of the new products that come
onto to the market, are in fact a dismal failure.

The ones which do make it bigtime, are most of the time well researched
products which have stood the test of mass scrutiny.

Take your example of mobile phones. Personally I hardly use mine,
I keep it in the vehicle for emergencies or a possible breakdown.
But I also acknowledge that for say a tradesman or small businessman,
they would be invaluable. An office in their pocket, in contact with
customers, and all the rest. They would in fact save huge amounts of
resources, no more dead miles of travel, saving petrol is just one
example.

I've also been told by parents with daughters, that teenage females
have this innate need to communicate with their friends and tell each
other how they feel. That just seems to be part of their genetic
instinct, AFAIK. Before they had mobiles, they'd hijack the home
phone and occupy it for hours after school.

Some corporations are simply better at figuring out, what really
appeals to the human psyche and corporations giving people what they
really want and often need, is not such a bad idea, IMHO.

Our resources are not just there to be admired and if they can be
recycled and used again, why should I object