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The Forum > Article Comments > Greens - the most public secret for forty years > Comments

Greens - the most public secret for forty years : Comments

By Scott Ludlam, published 2/9/2011

'Overnight success' takes a lot of time and hard work.

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The Greens are an admirable party in many respects and their recent stance on peak oil has been outstanding, thanks largely to Senators Milne and Ludlam. But they would do well to give a bit more credit to the Australian Democrats who were the ones that broke the two-party tradition. The Democrats also had an excellent environmental policy and have a legislative record to prove it, so the Greens were by no means the first 'green' party in the Australian Parliament. My major concern, however, with the Greens is that they tend to put social policy ahead of environmental policy. I happen to be in favour of same-sex 'marriage' (or giving civil unions of lesbians and gays full legal rights), but I don't want to see it at the top of the list of policy priorities. If they are Greens their priorities should be climate change (and thus opposition to coal-fired power stations and support of alternative energy), protection of forests and biodiversity, the ecological carrying capacity of the continent (as against the rights of asylum seekers, though it is a worthy issue),air and water quality, protection of fish resources, and - this would be nice - working with the NFF and the Nationals to preserve agricultural ecosystems. The rights of Palestinians and Tibetans are important but should only take up a fraction of Greens' time.

Having said all that, good luck to them and may Australia continue to have a healthy multi-party democracy!
Posted by popnperish, Friday, 2 September 2011 8:22:32 AM
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Just a small change Scott - 'Since 1 July 1 1990, the Greens have representative their constituents continuously in the Australian Senate ...'

The Greens are an environmental party. Always have been, always will. No social justice runs on the board there. Good on them for sticking up for the refugees but really, they don't want them here either. Their sustainable population policy calls for a cut to immigration from all areas.
Posted by Cheryl, Friday, 2 September 2011 9:11:22 AM
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Some interesting elements to this piece of introspection and self-analysis.

The first that struck me was the inference that the Greens somehow identify themselves as a "centrist" organization, when they clearly operate on the absolute political fringes.

"Centrist parties face a perpetual dilemma – endeavouring to appeal to a broad spectrum of often contradictory belief systems..."

None of their policies that I can see can remotely be labelled "centrist". They are the softest- of soft-left in their presentation of social policy, and simultaneously ultra-right-wing when it comes to their belief that they should control every aspect of our lives. Free enterprise is completely absent from their vocabulary, as is freedom of choice. Our way or the highway, pal.

This jostling-for-the-limelight leads to some wayward logic, too.

The high dissatisfaction rating of the Prime Minister and her party has, in my view, its roots in the random deals and compromises they have had to make in order to form a government at all. Much of this can be sheeted home to the influence of the minorities, who have bastardised practically every piece of attempted legislation, to the point where it is difficult to discern which bits are Labour policy, which are Green policy, and which are simply sops to the Independents.

Ms Gillard has failed spectacularly to provide coherent government for this country. But when you look at the material she has had to work with, having to appease a bunch of radicals pushing their own radical agendas, it's a wonder she has made it this far.
Posted by Pericles, Friday, 2 September 2011 9:17:54 AM
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The Greens are hardly an interesting or viable alternative to the major parties. Bob Brown is far less popular in the community than even Gillard at her lowest ebb. The Greens have a mish-mash of policies, many contradictory and near sighted. Their attempt to capture some form of environmentally based populism ultimately results in a naive conglomeration of feelgood policies which range from simplistic at one end to retrogressive and dangerous at the other extreme.

Their time on the sun has been abused by Brown who has sought to push unpopular policies on to the population. Gillard,in need of support has acquiesced.

It may have been 40 yrs in the making but the community has had a taste of Greens and they don't like it.
Posted by Atman, Friday, 2 September 2011 10:57:37 AM
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For Pericles -

“The Australian Democrats operated as a centrist liberal party... Centrist parties face a perpetual dilemma – endeavouring to appeal to a broad spectrum of often contradictory belief systems while balancing ethical with pragmatic considerations. This can create contradictions that more often than not hamper the effectiveness and appeal of the party. The Australian Greens have consistently and openly positioned itself as a party with progressive, socially liberal, social democratic policies.”

The point he is making is that the Greens are NOT a centrist party
Posted by Jack Tower, Friday, 2 September 2011 1:59:38 PM
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Forty years to get the balance of power; twelve months to stuff things up completely and destroy their electoral chances for the next decade. Truly a magnificent achievement!
Posted by Jon J, Friday, 2 September 2011 2:44:32 PM
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Ah, Jon J... Read the article. The Greens have held the balance of power before at both State and Federal level. The basic premise of your attempted troll does not exist.
Posted by Jack Tower, Friday, 2 September 2011 3:30:43 PM
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Ah, also, in terms of their electroral chances being "destroyed"... the Greens are polling better now than at the 2010 election. Once again, your comment is a fact-free zone.
Posted by Jack Tower, Friday, 2 September 2011 3:34:11 PM
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[Deleted as spam.]
Posted by Green Times, Friday, 2 September 2011 4:05:47 PM
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That makes far more sense, Jack Tower.

>>The point he is making is that the Greens are NOT a centrist party<<

The problem that poses is where the average voter is going to perceive their policies might fit into the "normal" political spectrum. My suspicion is that come an election, the Greens will find themselves targetted by both Labor and Liberal, as being unpleasantly radical extensions of each of their opponent Party's extremist wing. This exaggerates the fact that they are not a Centrist party, and therefore not a safe haven for compromise voting.

The prerequisite to Green success is the wholesale ditching of the two major Parties in favour of a mish-mash of social engineering crusades. While one or two individual policies may resonate with individuals, the cult of "Party loyalty" is too ingrained to be easily swept away.

We are currently very badly served by the two-Party bias here in Australia, of that there is little doubt. This is the reason why the polls show equal derision for Gillard and Abbott. Whether that will translate into a massive protest vote - because that is all it is going to be - at a general election, is not clear. But I suspect that the more the public gets to hear about the Green policies, the less inclined they will be to protest so loudly about their present immediate choices.
Posted by Pericles, Friday, 2 September 2011 4:19:43 PM
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"At a national level while sharing balance of power, we have secured important improvements to a number of laws and projects, ... secured greater accountability for NBN Co by making it subject to Freedom of Information laws and won a 10 billion renewable energy fund that supports energy efficiency and starts planning for a 100% renewable energy future."

If the Greens had been as responsible and forward-looking as the author claims, then they would have opposed the NBN project, which represents an over-20-year reversal in Labor thinking. The NBN project no doubt appeals to the Greens because it means a return to Govt monopolisation and control of wholesale telecommunications.

The NBN has been promoted as the greatest thing since sliced bread. Yet the legislation, instead of building in a downward price trend for scale economy and productivity purposes, encourages the complete opposite behaviour -- it allows the NBN company to raise its prices on a regular basis. If only there had been a cost-benefit analysis conducted. There is little doubt that Australia will finish up with the highest-priced wideband internet services in the developed world.

By justifying the carbon tax on the basis of ideology -- they cannot point to any published scientific papers that report compelling scientific evidence that carbon dioxide is the driver of dangerous global warming -- the Greens are keen on Australia being disadvantaged substantially on the international stage. The Greens have done their utmost to make the proposed carbon tax the highest in the world.

(To be cont.)
Posted by Raycom, Friday, 2 September 2011 4:30:21 PM
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(Post cont.)
The 10 billion dollar renewable energy fund would be a gross waste of money -- there would be thousands of projects where such money would be far better spent . It is nonsensical to promote and enforce the replacement of low-cost efficient coal-fired power with unreliable, inefficient wind power at three times the cost and unreliable, inefficient solar power at ten times the cost. It should be remembered that these cost ratios apply after hundreds of billions of research dollars having being spent overseas on the renewables. The only way the renewables can compete is by penalising coal-fired power production.

Planning for a 100% renewable future is fanciful. No one in their wildest dreams, except the Greens, would contemplate such a vision.

What the Greens stand for is indeed still very much a public secret. The media are remiss in not analysing the implications of their published policies. However, it is becoming increasingly clear that the Greens are technology and economics illiterates.
Posted by Raycom, Friday, 2 September 2011 4:33:41 PM
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Why is it IT experts and industry love the NBN? Is it a bizarre conspiracy between academic, commerce and 'the Left'?

http://nbnmyths.wordpress.com/what-do-the-experts-say/
Posted by Jack Tower, Friday, 2 September 2011 5:19:54 PM
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Given the massive size of the NBN project, why did the Government not act responsibly and do a cost-benefit analysis? Because it would have spoilt a good story. Such an analysis would have shown that the costs, even though they are understated, would have far exceeded the benefits.

The NBN project has had to be given monopoly protection, so as to guarantee a captive market for its output. Instead of being faced with downward-trending broadband wholesale prices as the NBN project expands, Commerce will be forced to bear higher telecommunications costs which will result in significantly lower productivity than under competition.

Given the 'new' IR rules, the unions with members working on NBN construction can be expected to press for and gain substantial wage rises.

Furthermore, the record of the Rudd and Gillard Governments is such that they cannot be trusted to achieve the nominated cost and other target outcomes on any project they undertake, let alone the NBN project.

Hardly optimism-inspiring!
Posted by Raycom, Sunday, 4 September 2011 11:41:34 PM
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Spin, spin, spin! The Greens had the balance of power in the WA upper house of Parliament for several years and I can't remember one single achievement that they can legitimately claim credit for during that time. And, with apologies to long-term OLO readers who've heard this story before, while Dee Margetts was a Greens senator at the time when Howard was after just one more vote to get his GST package through the senate, she treated with absolute distain my suggestion that she vote for the GST legislation on condition that it contained many green initiatives such as solar hot water systems and low fuel-consuming motor vehicles being GST free.
The Greens aren't green - they use the environment to hide their anti-capitalist, anti-development, anti-Indigenous, anti-people agenda.
Posted by Bernie Masters, Monday, 5 September 2011 10:55:07 AM
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http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=12557#217130

Spot on Bernie, they were organised by Socialist forum in the mid 1980's, the NDP at the "1984" election was a test run.

After that, roughly half of Socialist Forum/rent a crowd said "we are not RED, we are green", the other half said, "we are not communists, we are democratic socialists", joined the Loony Left Factions of the ALP, took over & that is where Juliar came from.
Posted by Formersnag, Monday, 5 September 2011 3:31:15 PM
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The alarming void in media analysis of the Greens' policies at a time when they have been gaining in political strength, has led to the timely release of the book , "The Greens: Policies, Realities and Consequences", published by Connor Court in July 2011, and edited by Andrew McIntyre with contributions from Australian leading experts who look at a wide range of their policies in detail to reveal the practical consequences of these policies.
Posted by Raycom, Tuesday, 6 September 2011 11:25:01 AM
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I rather liked this observation, from the book's launch in Shepparton:

"The findings of these experts lead one to understand that the Greens have an uncontrollable urge to spend and tax, almost everywhere and for everything; a mania for control – through legislation and regulation of both institutions and individuals; a disturbing and unwarranted confidence in central planning and belief that government knows best; an antagonism to initiatives by the private sector or individuals; and at best, a systematic and naïve understanding, both historically and practically, of how the world works."

They are admittedly views that coincide with my own. But I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise.
Posted by Pericles, Tuesday, 6 September 2011 2:15:31 PM
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