Cont'd

The other point of view (which is widely accepted by many scientists, hydrogeologists and professors) is that there is strong scientific evidence to prove that the waters of the GAB are ancient, stored in the earth’s crust – and are finite. These experts state that the GAB will run out, it is a closed system, but whether it lasts us 20 years or 100 years, depends entirely on how we manage it. At the present time, we have already wasted 100 times the volume of Sydney Harbour (that is wastage, not usage) and we are at present wasting water equivalent to the volume of Sydney Harbour (0.5 million megalitres) each year."

So the best case scenario (according to the govt. documents) is that it will take several million years to replenish – the worst case scenario, is that it won’t replenish at all. In reality then, does it matter which theory is correct, as it is ludicrous to suggest the govt’s estimated rate of recharge (if it exists at all) could be of any benefit to the GAB? We claim (and independent hydrogeologists have agreed) that this rate is so miniscule, that it cannot ethically be called “recharge” – which implies that the water level is being topped-up, when in actual fact it is not being replenished at all. "

http://www.gabpg.org.au/great-artesian-basin

*What's smartarsed about telling something like it is?*

Poirot, cos its the easy thing to do, I do it all the time :)

But on the ground, in the real world, there would be a maze of
Govt Depts, each having a say in all this. Everyone would be
acting in their little patch of self interest. So to actually
bring about a change which fair to all concerned, would be
extremely difficult to impliment. So we have what happens now,
people just keep pumping.

The thing is, as rural holdings in places like India keep getting
smaller, with ever rising population, pressure keeps growing.
So it all keeps leading back to the elephant in the room, which
remains population, rather then blaming corporations, the IMF,
or the World Bank. But that is less of a trendie leftie catchcry,
much easier to just blame the evil West.

Pericles,
sorry for delays; my time is not my own.
On the first point you haven't established that "self-flagellation and guilt-trips" is what drives those who, nominally, take my side of the debate. Just as the true minimifidianist is, possibly, a rare beast, so too is your caricature of a greenie. Greenies have been demonised for decades, though their ranks are filled with intelligent professionals and scientists; by and large their position is eminently reasonable and popular parodies are the desperate resort of liberal conservatives.
What does capitalism still have to offer but more of the same blunt instrument? so-called market-based solutions; profit-driven innovation; a wasteful and destructively competitive process of survival of the fittest and indifference to manifold negative consequences--new markets!.
On consumption, Pericles, I allude to the engine and not the puny efforts of individuals. Governments don't talk about cutting consumption because that is the fundamental fuel of capitalism. Would it not make sense, for the sake of reducing carbon emissions, to encourage people to dispense with the second car--even penalise them for overusing the first--in favour of the footpath? But no, new toys drive the economy, the last thing we want is abstinence--once thought a virtue! Are we not every day harassed in the media to stop saving and spend? In recent years it's become shrill and desperate--indeed the fate of the world hangs on consumer confidence!
The next part, that mystifies you, alludes to the fact that the spike in unprecedented population growth is pegged to the advent and progress of capitalism. Capitalism doesn't raise people out of poverty--as if they were wretchedly waiting to be saved, it cultivates them to draw off profit, then leaves the bubble to collapse under the inevitable weight of attrition. Economically and ecologically, prosperity in the global system is counterbalance by poverty--its detritus.
"Why must it collapse"?
Capitalism has proved resilient (rather than adaptable) but its fundamental dynamic has not and cannot change: endless economic growth in a closed (and fragile) system; it doesn't occur in a vacuum, but must have a material concomitant.
It's a fool's paradise.

<< The smart farmer, like the smart business man, knows that 'a penny saved is a penny made'.>>

Well Grim , with that in mind, I would have thought that the really smart people in your waste conscious camp on “hitting a roo, or even just seeing a dead roo in the middle of the road” wouldn’t have fart-assed around debating whether to drag it off the road or go around it, but (taking a leaf out Bear Gryl’s book)would have drawn their bowie knives and cut off a few steaks for the solar powered barbie. Then proceeded to skin it to make an all-weather overall.

At one fell swoop you/they could have reduced demand for the ground eroding , grain fed ruminants, and saved a whole lot of methane emissions.

Raycom wrote "not even the 'mighty' IPCC, has been able to demonstrate or measure a dangerous human-caused climate change."

yes, but what on facts have YOU used to logic+reason to conclude no anthropogenic global warming?...

why the question?...well...tobacco doesn't cause canver-remember this one by all the 'experts' of the time...or colonized people 'prefer' imperial form of government by all the european experts of the time(bringing civilization to the savages)...going back further, insane were full of evil spirits so needed to be killed/isolated...or close to home, we are 'terra nullis' by experts to the queen victoria...allowed Crown to 'own' Australia...that just left small matter of all the aboriginal communities everywhere...and we know the rest dont we...hunting parties encouraged and made heroes...'lies made true if benefit exists', what ever extent destruction it caused...that's basically it...

such madness been going on for ages...just that now the 'madness' might just wipe us all out...thats why I think we the 'people' now need to think and act and this time stay in control...

sam

Thanks Ammonite. It's a rare moment when we agree, but I think the Artesian Basin is essentially being mined. Your links add some information to the OLO article I cited but for me the clincher is that the water comes up under pressure, it doesn't have to be pumped like a normal bore, and the pressure has been dropping over time.

No-one has been able to explain to me how you get water to flow from an area of low pressure (the recharge areas) into one of higher pressure. So it seems obvious that the water has been trapped underground and that the pressure is created by the crust bearing down on it.

I'm not sure how much of our agriculture depends on the basin. I suspect it is more important for grazing, but when it runs out it is going to have an impact.