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The Forum > Article Comments > Why the U.K. riots have more to do with austerity than criminality > Comments

Why the U.K. riots have more to do with austerity than criminality : Comments

By Greg Martin, published 15/8/2011

The London riots need to be seen in the context of consumer culture and the austerity and cannot be blamed simply on bad kids and irresponsible parents.

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Greg,

I'm sorry, but much of the looting was organised by opportunistic gangs, and a significant number of privileged teens, and had a wide racial component. Your analysis is flawed, and cobbled together to push your particular brand of political barrow.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Monday, 15 August 2011 8:21:25 AM
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Whilst there is no doubt truth in what 'Shadow Minister' says, I cannot find it in me to agree wholly with his pronouncements - but then he may be privy to specific information not yet available in the public domain.
I would point out though that when a class of people who have become accustomed to a benefit, whether it be bread & circuses in ancient Rome or telly & welfare in modern London, when threatened with deprivation of such benefit tend to become resentful & fairly 'snarky' and burn & throw things - including politicians out of office.
Truly 'there is nothing new under the sun'!
Posted by Brisbob, Monday, 15 August 2011 9:15:47 AM
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...Lack of dignity and corresponding lack of self respect fulminating in lack of overall respect for a society that gives them reasonable opportunity for self advancement by offering personal challenges with no guarantee as a reward, are the hallmark of intellectual laziness evidenced in rioters the world over, of which London is the latest.

...Seeing layabouts in our own streets begging for welfare is an example of this, and to them I would say, “Get your lazy overindulged arses off the footpath and head out to the bush and pick fruit”: Just as foreign backpackers prove it can be done.
Posted by diver dan, Monday, 15 August 2011 10:06:10 AM
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The frustration this subgroup of British society (in particular the teenage males of the institutionalised generational welfare-recipients) has been experiencing at their inability to participate at the consumerist pig's trough promoted by the mass media has been given a stage. No one's rioting because they haven't enough to eat. The looting that's going on is t agetting Nike shoes and cell phones. It's disgusting.

As with most societies of the industrialised world, the retreat of the state from its traditional responsibilities (provision of infrastructure and essential services, but primarily the provision of stability -- including policing) sets the stage for the complete lack of respect by the disaffected, disenfranchised non-participants to the debauchery the rest of society is engaged in, and emboldened as they are, they've taken to throwing stones at, ransacking and burning their own communities.

Just more evidence that collapse is in full-swing. Enjoy the show!
Posted by PEST, Monday, 15 August 2011 10:45:48 AM
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So there you have it.

We have the result of years of implementing the ideas of sociologists, & criminologists, & other theoreticians, & not listening to experienced cops, & this bloke wants to tell us;

"Criminologists reject the idea of “pure criminality”, preferring instead to focus on the social origins of crime. While pure criminality implies crime is a consequence of individual pathology, criminological research continues to recognise the enduring link between crime and relative deprivation. The root cause of much of the riotous behavior lies in young peoples’ exclusion from consumer culture coupled with over-policing and police harassment of particular groups in neighborhoods blighted by entrenched social and economic disadvantage".

Strangely the cops, & our own sense tell us it is exactly the opposite. No sentences when caught, smart ass kids who can work every legal lurk, & the cops with both hands tied in red tape.

Come on Greg, we are seeing increasingly, the results of your experiment with our lives, & mate you got a fail.

It is time you went back to the drawing board, & tried again. Try developing policies that have bite for the hoods, not hand outs.

God I'm sick of my taxes funding this rubbish.

I wonder when we will get a sociology of climate change department. The fairies could all get together & perhaps dance.
Posted by Hasbeen, Monday, 15 August 2011 12:00:38 PM
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Greg,
Britain has always had a wide disparity between the ‘haves’ and the ‘have nots’ and little has changed over the centuries, except possibly the empire coming back to bite it. The generation that grew up there after the war, the coupon generation, had little to celebrate about. There were no Xbox or Ipad junkies and wealth was something the privileged, or the more successful criminals (sometimes the two were entwined) enjoyed, to the detriment of the greater public.

Education for the poor was on a need to know basis and earning capacity was severely limited for those who did not have access to higher education. Those people and I was one of them, worked hard to climb out of the primal swamp of apathy and got on with life. We did not riot, or destroy shops and perform violent acts on innocent people. Apart from peaceful demonstrations against nuclear war, Britain had a calm, possibly stiff upper lipped, but predominantly law-abiding society.

What has changed, I believe, is a generation, ethnically fuelled and with a Ghetto mentality, that has come to expect too much for too little effort. What I saw of the riots in the 80’s and what I heard from the victims of those riots, were protests from underprivileged, predominantly black people, fuelled by a mob mentality and driven by an undercurrent of organised, predominantly white, crime. The black rioters trashed and burned, while the white criminals looted with vans in their wake. The only difference I see today is that the rioters now appear to be in the driving seat.

Tertiary education is far more wide-spread than it was in the 50’s and 60’s and more opportunities to succeed are there if one care’s to exploit them. There will always be those who wish to remain in comfortable, safe havens of apathetic bliss, blaming society for all their ills and that is quite acceptable in a democracy. Crime however, is not.

David Leigh
Posted by David Leigh, Monday, 15 August 2011 12:13:06 PM
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Nation Building is about IMMIGRATING in a way that creates a sub-paid or slave class out of unsponsored immigrants and slow or weak National citizens and taxpayers. As the sub-creatures will be cocooned to the NBN they won't (theoretically anyway) get wise to the situation and cause trouble.

Nation Building and its Immigration basis has social and economic COSTS that are calculated to be externalised to the community, not businesses or political players. This to make the politicians and CEOs LOOK GOOD. More importantly to attract princely remunerations... like holidays in Tuscany while riots are brewing.

Nation building is about stealing the best brains and talent from poor nations and justifying that with a faked up family/humanitarian intake. All the weak minds, drop outs or failures are confined to the 'net' and when they revolt they are pushed out of the system via gaol, drugs or suicide. Much to the delight of politicians who ride the situation in shin'ed armour like a Harley Davidson.

This has been going on since Rome and NEVER has the SECRECY surrounding it been tighter than it is today. Especially in so called "benign" and democratic nations such as Australia, Britain and the US.

So when you go to hospital Emergency and the nurse keeps calling Mustafa's and other foreign names while you sit thinking you could be dying, Just think - its all for a bigger more powerful NATION.

YEAH RIGHT!

And remember WE have a moral imperative to look after queue jumping, official bribing immigrants above the costs and cares of taxpaying Australians. This is an imperative that brooks no opinion polling and is a mandate of all elected Australian Governments: To treat foreigners-with-potential better than those who voted for you and make those voters pay for this till it hurts.

That way they will slowly realise just who'd the BOSS
Posted by KAEP, Monday, 15 August 2011 12:35:33 PM
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I think the rioters are "smelling" their exploitation by the system, even if they are not identifying that its foundations are in the theft of their BIRTHright to land and their consequent subservience to the business model.
Posted by landrights4all, Monday, 15 August 2011 12:40:55 PM
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"I think the rioters are "smelling" their exploitation by the system"

That's an interesting comment, but I do feel these folk once the opportunity arose, or an excuse existed, were rat fast to exploit the system.

Clearly they felt immune to retribution for some reason (?) but much to their horror now, the system is nailing them to the wall.

They took a risk it didn't work out, sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.

I feel no sympathy for the ones who now whine about losing their jobs, or taxpayer funded homes or other privilege.

Many did not seem to be protestors who had lost a birthright, they are at the bottom because they don't work hard at the right things to be successful, then become resentful - to excuse them and find reasons why they should be allowed to dodge responsibility and accountability is to embolden more of the same.

I'm the child of immigrants from northern Europe, and my parents never bleated about their birthright or land in the old country .. that's just such a fable.

You live with what you are dealt, or end up, for instance, like Australian aboriginals who in the main, sit around and complain about what was or what should be, not what is.
Posted by Amicus, Monday, 15 August 2011 2:07:25 PM
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clearly all of the issues raised in all of the aricles on this over the last week have some relavance.

the only question up for debate is, how much?

Social conservatives have not been suggesting family breakdown is the only issue, just top of the list.

welfare cutbacks would be another item on the list, further down in priority.
Posted by Formersnag, Tuesday, 16 August 2011 4:02:03 PM
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Mr. Martin's logic fails when compared to other instances of crime. If the enticing nature of the consumer culture is to blame for the riots, then , in rape cases it's not the fault of the rapist, but the women for being sexually alluring in the first place. Of course no one would dare argue such a thing, but using Mr. Martin's logic consistently such a crime can be legitimized.
Posted by Aristocrat, Wednesday, 17 August 2011 9:54:48 AM
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"Nation Building and its Immigration basis has social and economic COSTS that are calculated to be externalised to the community, not businesses or political players. This to make the politicians and CEOs LOOK GOOD. More importantly to attract princely remunerations... like holidays in Tuscany while riots are brewing."

Nation Building has morphed into an erosion of DEMOCRACY. At best it has become a gigantic GERRYMANDER for successive incumbent Governments and at worst it has diluted the rights and voice of individuals as communities are swamped with foreigners who have more of the Governments attention and GST money than brow beaten taxpayers.

Everyone is angry and the frustrations are bursting out both in the UK and Australia in the first instance at the level of mobile youth.
It is unlikely to stop there.

DEMOCRACY is for the people who vote NOT for Foreigners. Currently just about anyone of 6 billion people in the world can claim more taxpayer money then any Australian citizen under the false guise of humanitarian assistance. In reality taxpayers requiring the same assistance are ignored and treated meanly.

This is a recipe for Civil War. The riots are just the beginning.

IMMIGRATION for Political power and CEO profit is a blunt tool to enforce entrenched UPPER CLASS structures in both Australia and the UK.

Its TIME people understood this and voted NO to further immigration.

Otherwise you had better get used to bad treatment and the subsequent riots.
Posted by KAEP, Thursday, 18 August 2011 10:50:03 AM
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