McReal - Would you care to elaborate on how you can make the statement "there is more inspiration from approaching life without constant reference to a third party or third parties"? According to who? What measures? I'll give you a challenge to get the ball rolling. Research all the major charities in the world today and do the sums on what percentage were founded by Christians. Inspiration indeed.

Jon J - If a Christian supported their faith with the statement you have (How do I justify this view? Ultimately, by the only means by which anyone can justify anything: it WORKS.) they would be howled down. Guess the rules don't count for everyone...

And your statement "but I maintain that per capita many more theists are prematurely dead, maimed, poor, sick, miserable or in jail than atheists." is simply false. There has been endless research that proves this, yet surprisingly, it gets little media coverage. If the contrary were true, you'd never hear the end of it. Curious that.

I need no such assurance, crabsy.

>>Pericles: Once again it seems I have to assure you that I am quite happy to call myself a Christian<<

The label that you attach to your belief system is totally irrelevant to me. As I have observed before, a branch of religion that can contain the Jensens, the Church of Nigeria, the Trinity Episcopal Cathedral in San Francisco as well as family units from Sydney's leafy North Shore, is indeed a walking definition of a "broad church".

But it's clear I was on the wrong track.

>>I am trying, for the benefit of those not associated with church communities, to present a picture of what is happening on the inside<<

I had assumed that there would be some form of relationship with the "believing" part of religion, rather than merely an examination of the workings of its corporate structures.

But on re-reading the piece, it should have been fairly obvious from the outset that we weren't in the land of spirituality...

"...here I confine my observations to Christianity, which I know best. Within Christianity "emerging churches" are rapidly multiplying..."

Fair enough. Seems to me a little like trying to make sense of the global economy by observing the structure of your household budget, but if that was all you want to share, that's fine.

Have a great day.

The subject is the way foward for true Christianity to grow in the hearts and minds of the present and future generations. The basis to be called Christian is to understand the attitudes and actions of Christ himself because to dismiss him is anything other than Christianity. It is obvious most want to write their own religion beliefs but it is not Christian unless it embodies the heart of Christ.

To be a follower of Christ is an individual committment and not a national control religion as seen by some. Christ appeals to the inner man as a spiritual individual for his personal heart committment. Christianity for it to be real as intended by Christ must remove itself from nationalalistic aspirations by a Religious heirarchy and become personal. That every man has the heart of God expressing love and compassion for those injured, oppressed and failing.

"Jon J - If a Christian supported their faith with the statement you have (How do I justify this view? Ultimately, by the only means by which anyone can justify anything: it WORKS.) they would be howled down."

Then that would be an excellent incentive for them to abandon Christianity.

"Not only do you admit that atheism can be a religion JonJ, but it appears you believe in a prosperity gospel as well! I'm sorry, but from any perspective I find the size of your bank balance to be irrelevant to any truth claims of any sort of religion or philosophy of living."

Did you miss the part where I pointed out that I am also happy, healthy and well-beloved?

Good Post Philo,
But, at the end of the day, I guess that people are entitled to believe what they want/need, and it is not for any one else, Christian or Otherwise, to tell everybody else that they are wrong.
At the end of the day, we came in to the world the same way, ditto with our departure from it.
NSB