Jay,

I think you forgot to take your meds with your breakfast today

Dear Jay,

You certainly move in interesting circles.

In the past - it was "reds under the beds," and today it's the fear of
"gays in the beds."

Never mind. Time marches on and things change. Who will we pick on next?

Ronson.
And the two minutes hate ended hours ago.
Maybe I should have chosen the screen name "Perseus" since all I do is take down hideous venom spitting monsters by reflecting their own twisted image back at them.

Some revolutionary you are, "We'll bring down the oppressive heteronormative state by co-operating with them and using their unfair and unethical laws to crush everyone in our path!"

Let me school you, Medusa on the "social contract".
The State is based on a contract where we surrender to the government a monopoly on the use of force on the understanding that they will protect us.
Any use of force in the form of laws that exceeds that mandate is a misuse of that position and a breach of that contract.
Furthermore any breach of that contract on behalf of a Third party is an act of corruption and treason. (Gays, remember have positioned themselves as a Third party, outside society)

Simply put, "Gays"and their supporters are corrupting the social contract and re directing the use of force via "Hate laws" to serve their own Third party interests.
See, nobody is saying for a second that "Gay Liberation" is anything but an attempt at secession from mainstream society and it's oppressive heteronormative standards.
Tell you what, get rid of the "hate laws" first and we'll see what sort of debate we have when both sides are allowed a free range of expression without fear of violence or imprisonment.

In principle I agree that gay's should be able to marry (as should any other consenting adults).

If restrictions are needed then they would be about procreation - eg in the case of close relatives or other cases where it's known that a particular union dramatically increases the risk that children will be born with significant defects.

On the other hand I think that the government should get out of the marriage business. It can manage the laws to ensure that nominations for next of kin status give the expected rights and responsibilities and anything else where the law is required, otherwise what business is it of the governments what status a relationship has.

The government should never place the obligations of marriage on those who have not consented to those oligations - the murky waters around defacto-status being the example I'm aware of there.

In some way's IO think that the gay and lesbian movement has done it's self potential harm by seeking to further legitimise the government/societies "right" to decide on relationship status.

Far better to decide that your happiness isn't dependant on governments approving of your relationship status - "Australia has locked the doors for marriage and happiness for the gay community" and work towards ensuring that your rights to the legal benefits and responsibilities of a relationship are not easily threatened by swings in public opinion (or a particular pollies hang ups).

R0bert

Damn this 24 hr post limit.
Anyway, the point I'm making, or the question I'm posing to the "Gays" and their supporters is:
When does the Liberation struggle end and the reconciliation process begin?
I mean, this has got to be the longest revolution in history, we're coming up on 40 years of "Gay" Liberation.
Any wonder us outsiders think you're nothing more than a bunch of re skinned Trotskyites.
To the homosexuals, is there going to be a "night of the long knives" so to speak, are you seeking post revolutionary normalisation and integration at any point or are there as yet un-met objectives for which the "Gay" Vanguard can be useful?
Do the homosexuals have limited objectives for the revolution or am I simply over estimating the influence of "cooler heads" on the movement?
I ask because it's not something that's talked about a lot and from what I see the revolutionary tempo

JoM

It is not gays who are revolting.

:D