"I'm not trying to inflict my, or our, values on anyone let alone everyone: I did not even express my values, just tried to point out the arrant hypocrisy of those who object to one form of cruelty to animals but embrace another."

Yes, it is or can be hypocritical and that's life. We don't live in a perfect world.

So rather than inflict our values on the customers, the Indonesians and others, who have their own customs and ways, why don't we just let them be.

Do you think they see it as western arrogance, for us to be behaving as we do about the way they do things?

In Islam, it is recommended to slit the throat of the beast and let it bleed to death .. while facing Mecca. Certainly not a painless or stress free method, but if you want to argue with the words of the prophet, be my guest.

rpg,

I have lived, worked and played with Moslems for many years. I speak to them in their native tongue and I have listened when they don't know I understand. Almost certainly I know more of Islam than you including their theoretical and practical halal practices.

"Do you think they see it as western arrogance, for us to be behaving as we do about the way they do things"?

Of course they do and they are right. For example, in Indonesia fornication is a crime. A crime well "honoured" in breech, including by me. But I'm not in the public eye, let alone PM and for Gillard to take her lover with her to Indonesia is regarded as appalling arrogance - a Head of State blatantly and openly (presumably unless they have CCTV in her suite) breaking the law. Indonesian MPs may have mistresses but it's not blatant, albeit hypocritical (ain't we almost all in some way?)

I've seen hungry kids catch, skin and barbeque a cat to get some meat; in SA that's a criminal offence! In fact it was seen by Rann as so important to criminalise that it was about the first legislation he passed after 8 years in opposition.

"why don't we just let them be".

I think we should in general, I do as I think and don't know how you could think I don't, if you do so think; the issue I raised was with the hypocritical Australians.

I have argued against and for the words of the Prophet without anyone's ok, but thanks for your permission anyway.