Some industrial awards in the past had a single man's wage and a married man's wage.

So is that equal pay with single men or married men?

The mainspring of this issue is unequal pay between government and non-government employees in the social & community sector, due to the hegemony of the NSW public sector union over the state's bureaucracy- the Public Service Association (PSA) - not gender-based pay discrimination or ASU "militancy". This author has a fundamental misunderstanding of this issue, courtesy of them interpreting this issue through the (oversimplified) frame of marxist ideology.
I work in this sector and I am a man and I know many men who work in this sector, so this cannot be generalised and cast as simply a gender-based discrimination issue. The issue here is the pay discrepancies between government and non-government employees in the sector who perform the same/similar roles. Put simply, the dominant power of the PSA within the NSW Government and it's bureaucracy became entrenched under the former labour government(s) and resulted in a culture of empire building within state government departments, funneling more $$ into government-run social & community services at the expense of crowding out and underfunding equivalent services in the NGO aspect of the sector. So, it's been the "militancy" of the PSA that has engendered this pay (& subsequent service) gap and I think it would serve the ASU's own "militancy" efforts to close this gap by recognising the fact that it's been militant unionism (courtesy of PSA empire) that has been the driving force behind the entrenchment of this pay disparity.

Excellent article, Liz. More equality on analysis of issues of interest to women like equal pay.I worked in a meatworks in the late 1970s- the union set up was the check off system- union dues deducted from your pay- compulsory. These union guys had been colluding with the employers for years to keep women at a labourer rate and promote men over them to the kill line - as slaughterers, boners and slicers.Some women had been there for years. When the existance of not one but two seniority lists was discovered the women were enraged and forced the foreman to rip it up. He chose not to argue with women armed with boning knives! So overnight every woman who had more than one years service was promoted to the kill line. A pay rise of about150-200 % depending on the days kill. The other big gain for the women at this meatworks was that the labourers were the first to be stood down and the ones with seniority were given maintenance and smallgoods work to keep them going. So you see how it works, men because they need money for their interests like drinking, shouting their mates, smoking, gambling, womanising need a job. They get priority. Whereas women who have to put the children first only get a job if their is plenty to go around. The current Walmart case in the US has shone the light on entrenched workplace discrimination where women are kept at an unskilled rate, no chance of pay rise all their lives. The same in the public service, where women start as clerks and die as clerks. Not only is the concept of males getting paid more money simply because of their appendage an outdated and primitive idea, it is completely incongruous with the modern reality. Women should get the married man's rate and men the single mans rate. Now that would be much fairer as they said in Dr Zhivago

Hestia
Anecdotal as it may seem, but I remember working in a factory that had a laboratory and a main processing plant, with the laboratory being mostly staffed by women, and the main processing plant being mostly staffed by men.

If there was a breakdown of the main processing plant, all personnel were expected to go into the main processing area where they were given maintenance tasks.

It was basically impossible to get the women out of the laboratory into the main processing plant, even for maintenance tasks such as TA jobs.

Because they did not want to do jobs outside the air conditioned laboratory, the women were never able to get higher paid jobs, and were never able to become a foreman or team leader in the factory.

So, if you only want to mention places that might purposely discriminate against women, there would be many places where women mostly limit themselves, and discriminate against themselves.

Vanna

My sister did a apprenticeship in electrical technology which included her regularly maintaining and calibrating equipment having to climb to the top of a chimney stack in one of Melbourne's well known brewery's. She just recently graduated with a teaching degree and teaches maths and science to year nines and eights.

You regularly make sweeping generalisations about women - which are complete figments of your imagination. And, like JamesH only appear to rise to the surface of OLO on topics regarding women.

Hate to break it to you but your mother was a woman.

Really well-researched article, Liz; and interesting too. :)

Ammonite

“having to climb to the top of a chimney stack”.

So.

I have done similar work many times, like most other men employed in construction or factory work.

“She just recently graduated with a teaching degree and teaches maths and science to year nines and eights.”

Exactly.

She would have probably received more money by staying with electrical work, and eventually getting an electrical engineering degree. There is a shortage of electrical engineers in this country and elsewhere.

If women want more money, they have to go where the money is, like men have been doing for centuries

So Vanna if your generalisation is that women avoid dirty work, explain to me those that work in shearing sheds, on farms, in mines, in factories and in abbatoirs. Would love to see your explanation for this.

Country Gal
“those that work in shearing sheds, on farms, in mines, in factories and in abbatoirs”

Some women do work in those places, a very few women.

But it’s not just the dirty, hot or physically demanding work that so many women are not interested in.

This article is interesting

“Australians expected to splurge $5.8 billion on games over the next four years” with "Statistics show 40 per cent of gamers are women,"

http://www.news.qut.edu.au/cgi-bin/WebObjects/News.woa/wa/goNewsPage?newsEventID=35990

The games industry seems potentially lucrative, but only 5% to 10% of the students in computer games development classes are women.

So now there has to be a “Women in Games” event to get “women to work in the gaming industry and raise awareness for women interested in it."

Why don’t they just buy a book on games development, download games development software, develop a game, and then sell it, (like countless males have done)?

No.

First of all they have to get government money (i.e tax payer funding), and then hold group sessions to raise awareness of their oppression, oppression, and then they have to develop special women’s networks for women in computer gaming, and somewhere along the line they might actually produce a computer game.

Thats why women so often get left behind.

I am not sure what to make of you vanna. Are you jealous that men cant get themselves organised to promote such things themselves? So the women in gaming want to draw some attention to what they are doing and see if they can encourage others. So what?

Jeez, you obviously havent been in a shearing shed in a while, or on a farm at harvest, or on a mine site. Men are still in the majority, but there are an awful lot of women around doing that work (and making bloody good money too). On a trip to a mine site that my sister used to work at, I was introduced to a number of people in different areas. No one had anything but praise for my sister (who rose to leading hand thanks to being a hard worker and being good at her job). When she first got the job I asked how she found it. Her answer "its awesome, so much fun, the machinery is cool, everyone just gives everyone else a hard time, its just like working in the shed with the shearers". The women work on all aspects of the job (although they are kept off the loader until they are past child-bearing age for fear of employers being sued if something stuffs up) - they work out in the 45 degree heat alongside the blokes, and they are expected to be as competent in operating their machines and understanding how to pick the things that are going wrong in advance of it becoming a major problem. No allowances made because they are women.

Country Gal
Why don't women develop their own mine?

Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Forrest

Who is Gina Rinehart? A man in disguise I suppose?

Vanna

My sister worked as an electronics technician for 20 years before switching careers. And she has chosen ideals over money.

And in addition to what Country Gal has to say, I'd like to see you tell anyone, face to face, in the nursing profession that they don't like getting their hands dirty or hard work.

You live in some alternative universe; women have always worked hard in fields, factories, massive laundries and in hunter-gatherer societies carry all the heavy loads.

Country Gal
Gina Rinehart inherited a mining industry from her father. She has not built up an industry from scratch

If women want better wages, let them develop their own industry, and then they can pay themselves whatever they want.

Ammonite
I often work with people doing work outdoors in the sun and rain. About 95% are men.

I think the hardest work many women are doing right now is whinging about men.

Unfortunately, only a few academics in universities get paid for that.

"But even by Rinehart's iron-willed standards, hers has been a remarkable battle to get to the top and deliver on her fathers unfulfilled dream: to personally develop one of his massive iron ore deposits into a working mine.

When Rinehart tool control of the family company as a single mother of four following Hancock's death in 1992, her fathers estate was bankrupt and the business laden with debt." BRW Rich List edition.

http://www.brw.com.au/p/sections/features/first_lady_gina_rinehart_6WcwDFk35eClsSwPzZzWqN

Oh sure thing vanna, sounds like the woman swans around and inherited all she has. If you actually read the link you gave about Twiggy, you'll get the gist that he didnt exactly being from a standing start either.

If OLO can be considered a cross-section of society then I think the number of men complaining about women just about equals what you think goes the other way. All you have to do is hop onto one of these threads to find out. Good sports such as yourself willingly oblige to prove my point. Thank you!

Country Gal

There have been many new industries developed, but rarely have they ever been developed by women.

Invariably they are developed by men, and then women enter the industry and say the industry is being dominated by men, and women are being oppressed by men.

Here is a new industry that has enormous potential: Graphene

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YbS-YyvCl4

I wonder who will develope the graphene industry.

Some mere male I suppose.

Such a typical man - completely impossible to satisfy!

Vanna: Women dont like dirty work
CG: Explain the women in dirty industries
Vanna: There are hardly any
CG: Go look at a mine
Vanna: But women cant develop a mine
CG: But Gina Rinehart DID
Vanna: But women cant develop an industry

Whats the matter, dont like being proven wrong so you have to keep lifting the bar?? Face it mate, there are plenty of powerful, successful women out there. Watch out - one might look down her nose at you today.

End of the day, there should be equal pay for equal work. Single mens and married mens wages are just ridiculous - a dinosaur from the past. Your pay should reflect your productivity. If you are a smart worker and can produce more for less effort, you should be rewarded for that. I am paid less than my male counterparts because at the moment my productivity is less. I dont really care (but anticipate that they will whinge and cry poor in about 3 years when my long-term revenue-building strategy pays off).

Country Gal

You are threatening Vanna's worldview, without which he will be unable to function. No matter how overwhelming the evidence of female contributions throughout history (despite the restrictions) Vanna will believe what Vanna wants, it suits his insecurity that he believes women are helpless parasites.

Feel sorry for the man.

Ammonite,

I wouldn't call them helpless.

They seem to know how to get money from men, and for doing less and less in time.