pelican this is a very useful point to make:

"There is a difference between mainstream porn and illegal porn that involves rape, child pornography and snuff movies and the judicial system has already taken care of those aspects."

From a legal point of view then, it seems that the determining factor in differentiating acceptable and unacceptable porn is whether or not all the people appearing in it are doing so willingly. Of course there are good arguments to suggest that many people who ostensibly do it willingly are actually doing it because they have few other options for making money - and so you could say that there is a degree of exploitation going on in these cases. But if you take out the presumptions and value judgements made by Dines and her ilk then I think this notion of willingness is what we're left with, and is a good place to start.

And yes, I agree entirely with the article - healthy, functional human beings all have moral compasses and can make ethical choices all by themselves!

I do take issue with holding up Abby Winters as an example of responsible porn though, as has been done in many places. I must say I think that site is in pretty poor taste and is actually quite exploitative in comparison to, say, MET or Domai. On one of their preview videos they actually have a roomfull of naked girls doing gymnastics, for pete's sake!! (though sometimes I wonder whether some porn is directed at satisfying the entirely scientific curiosities of amateur anatomists and gynecologists).

As I think I said in a post on another Gail Dines-related article, I think part of the reason that pornography gets up whatever orifice (sorry couldn't resist that one) of people like Gail Dines is that we still have a long way to go before we are able to depict sex and eroticism in a way that does justice to the emotions involved. Most of it isn't exactly high quality filmmaking, and until we can develop a culture of discussion and critique of the ins and outs (there he goes again!) of quality porn then it will continue to languish at the bottom of the DVD bargain bin. However it strikes me that we're still not mature enough as a society to achieve this.

Yoo hoo Jennifer.

If you are interested in a causal link between media pornography and sexual violence towards women, could I recommend FBI profiler Roy Hazlewood’s book “the Evil that men Do”.

Hazlehurst states that in the prudish “50’s, the only "over the counter" pornography that was available was the “Detective Magazine” genre. These magazines were not sexually explicit, nor did they show nudity, as that would not have been tolerated in that era. Instead these magazines titillated their readers with stories about violence inflicted on women in bondage situations. The covers of these magazines typically showed a bound and gagged terror struck woman, cringing before a menacing male. The stories inside emphasized violence against women with erotic acts.

The moral guardians of that era considered these magazines puerile but harmless.

The forensic scientists became concerned with these magazines when they were found to be in the possession of every serious sexual offender. Interviews with convicted serious sexual offenders revealed that this type of pornography was extremely important to them and among their most treasured possessions. The profilers were able to prove definite links between some of the stories and actual acts committed upon abducted women.

By the 70’s, pornography laws had become so liberalized that other magazines like Hustler and Playboy had taken up the profitable pornography theme. But the industry never forgot the findings of the FBI and they (quite creditably) never mixed eroticism with violence again. It was just too dangerous. Today’s printed pornography always shows sexual acts which are friendly and fun.

I don't know Abby Winters, haven't watched porn for a long time. The real thing will always be far more exciting.

This blog gave an interesting take on it:

http://domrant.blogspot.com/2011/05/qanda-gail-dines-and-second-wave.html

Houlley
That quote is taken out of context and it was not a broad brush stroke about men. It was more to do with the effect of porn on men from her POV. It might be perceived as equally insulting that Dines does not credit men with enough sense or the moral compass as Sam Jandwich put it, to make wise and humane choices.

Q&A was the first time I had heard of Dines so my impression of her is only from that show. When I get the time I might read her book, but there are many others beckoning on the bedside table. I don't know if Dines offers any real evidence that porn is making women targets or that men are being unreasonable about sex, or raping more women or disrespecting women. Men are in porn movies too.

My experience is that men and women are not all that different in essentials, valuing the 'whole' of a person including the sexual component but more as the entree than the main meal. The odd miscreant does not a whole species make.

Sorry, Lego, I'm not ignoring your information, just had some stuff to attend to.

I'm not informed enough to dispute or agree with the material you've provided, but I find it intriguing.

I'm not sure what is the purpose of framing the information in racial terms, unless you want to make a point that men of colour in lower socio economic groups are more likely to be violent against women than white men of that demographic.

In an Internet world the opportunity to censor images that we used to have is lost, probably forever. What we need is sophisticated software that can be used individually when necessary to prevent access by children who shouldn't have to deal with these images. The days you describe in your second post are over - whether that's a good or bad thing is part of the debate, I think.

The guy who runs Abbywinters was accused of coercing models, suspected of using underage girls in shoots, had lax record keeping practices and allowed photographs and videos to be distributed in contravention of the terms of the model release contracts.
The company has vacated it's Australian offices is now run from Amsterdam.