Dear Houellebecq,

You did say that. However, you said it while I was keying in my comments and didn't see it.

*So, I like to make my own similar jump, all being fair, and state these women's objection to porn is all about power. They don't wish men to be gratified without permission*

Ah Houllie, your post absolutaly hit the nail on the head!

Some women will cry out against porn, yet drag a dildo out of
their drawer.

I doubt it is about permission Yabby and Houlley. Why would it be?

There is no doubt Gail Dines believes in what she preaches and she did not present as someone who is out to degrade or subjugate men. Her opinion of men appeared very healthy on Q&A.

Dines places greater emphasis on porn's influence around attitudes toward women. On this my thoughts are similar to suzeonline's excellent summary. Sex and sexual imagery has always been around in some form. An exposed ankle in the Victorian era might just as equally titillate as a rounded breast in a modern magazine - attitudes around sex are influenced by cultural norms. Which also suggests degrading acts in some porn movies may shape some ideas around sexuality - but to what extent?

I don't think porn reduces respect for women for the majority of men. Men who harbour deep resentment for women or predatory men have become that way despite porn. Hatred is not logical or rational but runs deep and while not being an expert, I would guess it has more to do other life experiences and attitudes learnt in the home.

There is a difference between mainstream porn and illegal porn that involves rape, child pornography and snuff movies and the judicial system has already taken care of those aspects.

Most men can distinguish between the images seen in porn and real life. Sexual attraction is biological and has been since neanderthal man.

Dear runner,

Please be specific and name one or more persons 'that scream so loud about cigarette packaging' and 'are often happy to turn a blind eye to this poison leading to the suicide of our young and the degradation of the human race.'

pelican,

'There is no doubt Gail Dines believes in what she preaches and she did not present as someone who is out to degrade or subjugate men. Her opinion of men appeared very healthy on Q&A. '

Ummm, 'amoral life support systems for erect penises?'

I beg to differ.

She sounds even more upset about men using porn than MTR, who brings out the 'male gratification' term with such obvious disgust. See, in their eyes, there is no harmless, healthy, victimless, erotic imagery. I'd wager even if men only got off to cartoons, they would still be against it. Which makes one wonder whether a man using his minds eye to create pornography is even degrading women too.

A poster supporting Gail stated all porn degrades all women. This kind of rhetoric is common among certain brands of feminist. Remember Dines' last article rated ANY porn as equally damaging. Have you seen Abby Winters site?

This abhorrence of men having any sexual desire for any woman except their partner at the time of coitus (I'm not sure if you're allowed to fantasise about your partner without her permission, and whether that is objectifying and degrading her) can only be described as a total rejection of male sexual desire, outside the context of a woman consenting to it.

I reckon it's about control of men, based on a fear of rejection.

Violence against women may involve all class groups, Jennifer, but men from the E demographic are for more prone to violent criminal behaviour than men from the ABC&D’s. The five demographic groups generally correspond to a sliding scale of intelligence, with the Alphas generally having the highest intelligence while the E demographic has usually the lowest intelligence.

Unsurprisingly, recidivist criminal behaviour is most commonly associated with the E demographic. In the USA, African Americans are very overly represented in prison, with one half of all black Americans aged between 18 and 55 either in jail, or on parole. According to the behavioral scientists who wrote the book “The Bell Curve”, the mean IQ score for black Americans is 85, as opposed to 103 for the “white” population, and 106 for Asian Americans.

The E demographic in the USA is very overly represented by African Americans, and African women are murdered at a rate seven times higher than their white sisters. This statistic is repeated in Australia, where the homicide of aboriginal women is several times higher than for white women. So endemic is violence towards women in aboriginal culture, that aboriginal men who kill their spouses are routinely only charged with manslaughter. You may remember the case of the aboriginal man who had murdered his wife, who was then convicted of abducting, bashing, and anally raping a 14 year old aboriginal girl. He only got 12 months because the magistrate realized that such violence was “traditional.”

One only has to examine the cultural values of intellectually challenged US ghetto blacks to understand the reasons for their high rates of misogyny. Young black men are being bombarded by rap music media messages which instruct them that life revolves around drugs, guns, violence, money, hatred of white people, and a misogynistic view of women.