Thanks for your comments, skeptic. Probably the best way to find out what churches do is to go and visit one. There you will find everyday Aussies giving of their time, money, and talents to help try and make the world a better place. I won't take up time with examples, but let me add this. One church I worked in offers free meals to the elderly, free care and support to the mentally ill, free financial planning for those with debt problems, has funded and built community buildings in poor nations, offers free counselling, funeral services, and weddings, offers it buildings for no cost to school and community groups with limited facilities, provides meals for the sick, visits to the elderly and dying, drug education programs for families, seminars on parenting and marriage, free courses on learning the Bible, uplifting and meaningful Sunday services, advocating and working for the release of child slaves and prostitutes, free music, concerts, and community fun days, raises 10,000's a year for aid projects, sponsors impoverished children, and free youth group programs.

Christians are not alone in doing such things, but to suggest they just offer words is a bit rough.

Don’t be scared, skeptic, head on down to your local (church!).

"I know first-hand that CRE and chaplaincy goes to great lengths to offer no-strings services and does not attempt to ‘convert’ children."

From the Qld SU web site (referenced a couple of days ago on another thread as well)

"Working with the churches, Scripture Union aims:

a) to make God's Good News known to children, young
people and families

and

b) to encourage people of all ages to meet God daily through
the Bible and prayer

so that they may

come to personal faith in our Lord Jesus Christ,

grow in Christian maturity and

become both committed church members and servants of a world in need."

SU certainly makes it clear that they are about converting children, their may be some spin in the language (they give the message, God converts etc) but it is abundantly clear from the Access ministries material and the SU website that they are about converting children.

The author's contention that they don't attempt to convert children is either a deliberate misrepresentation or he is way out of step with a couple of the larger christain organisations in the chaplaincy and RE business.

As a former christian and former sponsor of chaplaincy work I'm absolutely confident that for many the principle goal is conversion. Generally closing the deal may be done off site (at youth group's, youth camps, churches etc) but schools are used to lay the groundwork.

R0bert

Oh Christ!

Here we go again.

1. There are more religions than just Christianity.

2. There are churches for teaching the kiddies about Jesus.

3. Tax dollars would be better spent on school infrastructure, more teachers, greater variety of subjects: road rules, overall understanding of Australian law, Indigenous history, Music, Art. Literature AND comparative religions anyone?

The arrogance that some Christians have that their bronze age religion is superior to all other ideologies makes for the antipathy Mr Tuohy is whingeing about - Nicholas just try to think how you would feel if the program was Islamic Religious Education - you would be cheering the Age instead of deriding it.

It is precisely the sort of attitude displayed by the author that I regard as being so dangerous to today's children.

One of the main problems the ant-chaplain/RE activists are facing is that they have not talked to schools about what they want.

In 2009, the study “The Effectiveness Of Chaplaincy” by Edith Cowan University and University of New England, found:

that 98% of principals surveyed who currently have a Chaplain want government funding for School Chaplaincy to continue. The national study released in October 2009 also found that 92% of principals and 73% of students say School Chaplains are “highly important” in their school.

According to the 688 principals who participated, Chaplains helped to:

-build the sense of community in the school,
-support the school ethos and
-assist with the integration of potentially “at risk” students, including recent immigrants and Aboriginal students.

98% of principals surveyed said that Chaplaincy was making a major contribution to school morale; it was proactive, unique, effective and important. They urged that Government project funding should be continued when the three year cycle of project funding ended.
The research also found that Chaplaincy in government schools was not only unique, proactive and effective, but also a neutral and non-judgmental service that added long term value to the wellbeing of Australian Communities.

Source: http://www.suqld.org.au/_sys/_data/downloads/The_Effectiveness_of_Chaplainc_BRIEF.pdf

It never ends does it, these sort of articles pushing the line that separation of Church and State is worthy except for schools.

It is dishonest to insist that Chaplains are not using schools as recruitment grounds. That really is the bottom line. It is also dishonest to categorise and stigmatise those against school Chaplaincy or RI as villifying Christians. This is disingenuous. Who is saying ban religion? Those against indoctrination of children in schools are just pleading for common decency ie. spirituality is a personal choice and to leave religious teaching for the home and the Church.

The fact that there are some silly books on the school book list is a whole other issue and probably worthy of attention but is irrelevant in this discussion