Yes Minister.

But what has Christianity to do with churches and greed?

If, as I am told, Christianity is Love and Giving, who do you love besides yourself and what have you given to anybody so far if not words

Is it just my imagination, or are we seeing a concerted effort to promulgate these phony-war articles about religion and religious education?

There's certainly a lot more sabre-rattling from the Nicholas Tuoheys, "an ordained Baptist minister" of this world, that's for certain.

What is it that suddenly has them marching, as to war?

The removal of Christianity-based religious education from schools is, surely, a trivial issue in the overall educational scene. There are after all many places, all run on a tax-exempt basis (i.e. funded by the taxpayer) where these folk can "educate" themselves to their heart's content.

They used to be called "Church", or "Sunday School" back in the day.

The way they carry on like a bunch of two-bob watches, you'd think that the government was banning their religion altogether.

This author provides a typical sample:

"Firstly, why shouldn’t children have the right to learn about Jesus"

Ummmm, no-one is stopping them.

"Secondly, we often hear about the need to understand and address the root causes of terrorism"

And we do this by "making disciples" in one specific religion? Isn't that more likely to exacerbate the problem?

"Thirdly, I think Australians are largely fearful of religion"

Non sequitur.

"Fourthly, are there not more pressing needs to protect our children from?"

Non sequitur.

"Fifthly, what about proselytising? Everyone does it. Football teams, soft drink companies, fast food joints, and newspapers."

And you would give these people face-time with your kids' in the classroom? Come on, be serious.

"Finally, we should keep alive the stories of the Bible and the beauty of the language in which they speak"

Ahhhh, so they are just "stories". That's good to know.

If only they were taught that way, instead of pretending they're real.

Well written article. I agree with his main contention.

Whilst he makes some good points in a fair, balance and even slightly light hearted fashion, my only criticism would be that he doesn't confront the main argument the secularists use against CRE.

Secularists often have an unrealistic and absurd idealogy about what the "separation of church and state" and what "secularism" should practically mean; they believe it is a tool that should be used to exclude all religions. In actual fact it is simply a tool to ensure that no single religion has power to exercise authority over the state, and it must play the role of ensuring that all faith groups have equal opportunity.

(And it must also be stressed that equal opportunity does not mean they will automatically utilise those opportunities equally).

Yet more propaganda based on a misinformation campaign by the Christian right.

"Firstly, why shouldn’t children have the right to learn about Jesus and, if they so want, become a follower or, ready for it, a Christian?"

No-one is preventing this. You might say the same thing about any other religion or philosophy, but you're not fighting for Islam, Buddhism, or humanism to be proselytised in schools, are you? Those who oppose the current system propose an academic course in Faith and Philosophy which would give students more education and more knowledge about religion - not less.

"We also need to understand the root causes of religious fundamentalism."

Religious fundamentalism is exactly what we are opposing in our schools. Access Ministries, SUQld and other chaplaincy/SRE providers are fundamentalist in their views (you need only to read the teaching materials which even Anglican priest Gary Bouma has branded as 'appalling' and 'crap'.) Fundamentalism arises when children are only exposed to a narrow set of beliefs and not given the opportunity to understand how others derive their beliefs and values.

"... Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens, have recently expressed praise for the role the King James Bible had on literature and Western culture."

The King James Bible is an important work of literature but its importance to literature and Western culture is not what is being taught in scripture classes. (Remember theologian, academic and Anglican priest, Gary Bouma's assessment of the class content as 'appalling' and 'crap'?)

How many times must we say this? We are not trying to banish all talk of religion from the school room. We are trying to banish untrained fundamentalist 'teachers' who want to make disciples of children. We support an academic course, taught by trained professionals, which discusses major religions and philosophies *including* the role of Christianity in western history, art, literature, politics and culture. (continued)

(continued) "Fourthly, are there not more pressing needs to protect our children from?"

We'd rather spend our time on other things too. Why not support an overhaul of the current system, remove fundamentalist evangelists from the school yard, proselytise within your own church, and support an academic course in Faith and Philosophy in schools and we can all move on.

"Fifthly, what about proselytising? Everyone does it."

"I know first-hand that CRE and chaplaincy goes to great lengths to offer no-strings services and does not attempt to ‘convert’ children."

And we know from the avalanche of letters, emails and phone calls received by organisations such as Fairness in Religion in Schools and the Australian Christian Lobby that they do try to convert - sometimes using fear. The teachers' unions are also fully aware of what goes on these classes which is why the Victorian Teachers Union and the Australian Education Union have spoken out against them.

Proselytising - everyone does it? A footy team doesn't tell a child that if their parents don't barrack for Collingwood they will burn in hell. A soft-drink company spruiking its product doesn't tell a gay teen that their sexual identity is a sinful perversion.

"The Bible is the most influential and inspiring book in the history of humanity, as well as the most read and most sold. Let kids learn about obnoxious bottoms, but don’t deprive them of the beauty, wisdom, poetry, and challenging literature we call the Bible."

No-one is calling for the Bible to be banned. No-one is saying the Bible (and other major religious texts) shouldn't be studied in schools within an academic context.

"Does anyone really want their children to be without knowledge of that heritage."

Australia has a multicultural, multifaith and secular heritage. And no, we don't want children to be without knowledge of it. That's why we want fundamentalist Christian evangelists removed and a well considered, carefully monitored course in Faith and Philosophy implimented into the academic curriculum.

"The Age and its humanist buddies are red in the face crying “Yes!”

Your ears need cleaning. We're shouting "No!"

Obviously I meant Australian Secular Lobby - not Australian Christian lobby in the post above!