There is no 'Jewish right to national self-determination in Israel'.
Are American or Australian Jews who migrate to Israel donating their own properties to Palestinians whose properties the Israeli state has appropriated for them?
Do I have the right to go and expropriate property from some hapless family in Wales (possibly people descended from Jewish refugees from Tsarist pogroms) because my great great grandparents once lived there?
If Jews have a natural right to self-determination in Israel, does this mean that Australian Jews who have not made so-called Aliyah are living in a state of incompleteness as Jews? Is not their continued residence outside of Israel displaying contempt for Jewish 'self-determination'?
The whole thing is a joke, and yet we have educated people propagating this rubbish, worse, defiantly supporting ongoing ethnic cleansing against a subject people.
To date, the main impediment to a two-state 'solution' has been Israel itself. Succcessive Palestinian leaderships (including Hamas) have either accepted or have been prepared to negotiate around the 1967 borders. Bronstein's claim that Palestinians could have negotiated a state in 2000 or 2001 represents the usual diversion, as there was only hyperbole at both Camp David and Taba. Israel offered words, intending that nothing of substance would be given away.
When is Israel going to define its borders so that outsiders can know what the designation refers to?
The ongoing linguistic games by the Israel lobby demean all involved, not least the spokespersons of the lobby themselves.

Jews identify with Israel because it is the State of the Jewish people, but Jews but do NOT claim to be “refugees” from Israel just because our ancestors were made refugees by the Romans. If and when a State of Palestine is established, no-one will object if it opens its doors to people outside its borders who identify as Palestinians. This has got nothing to do with ethnic exclusivity. EVERY nation-State – Germany, France, Greece, Spain, Egypt, Syria etc etc – is the State of an ethnic majority whose language and culture is the official language and culture. Don’t pretend that a future State of Palestine would be any different. And I doubt it will give members of minority groups equal voting, legal and civil rights as Israel does

Re Vilmos
* 'Jews but do NOT claim to be “refugees” from Israel just because our ancestors were made refugees by the Romans'. Then why was a Jewish state forcibly created in this particular spot when a multi-ethnic community was already living there (necessitating, as intended from the start of the Zionist project, a project of ethnic cleansing)? And why do the expansionists refer to the West Bank as Judea and Samaria?
* Israel comparable to other countries? On the contrary.
Who is a Frenchman. A person of polyglot ethnicity who is a citizen of the state of France. And so on. Hitler had a preoccupation with conjoining purist notions of ethnicity and citizenship, but he is hardly a role model.
* Israel gives equal voting, legal and civil rights to non-Jews? hello? voting rights perhaps, but the equality ends there. For Non-Jewish Israelis - Property rights? Residency rights? Marriage rights? Educational and welfare rights? Rights deterring arbtirary arrest and detention? As for Residents of the Occupied Territories, they have no rights whatsoever.
Israel, by conception, creation and maintenance, is an apartheid state. Why not call a spade a spade?

In my post from last Thursday I failed to acknowledge where I first encountered the idea I discussed. If anyone is interested, the Israeli historian Shlomo Sand explores this idea in some detail in his book "The Invention of the Jewish People".

The mythical "Right of Return" is a fabrication. Anyone living outside the borders of Israel (as recognised by Arraffat in 1993) at the time the State of Israel was recognised by the Palestinian leadership, doesn't get to return (UN Resolution 181 - http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=4468). So be it, wishful thinking does not make the reality change.

Jews were forced out of some areas and let/forced Palestinian's out of others, so what, it was war. The fact the corrupt little toad sold out his people for a Nobel Prize shouldn't surprise anyone (even the PLA was embarrassed by the amount of money he had squirreled away in the end). The UN Resolution 181 calls for a two-State solution, that is in the process of being sorted out, but the Palestinian's have to make up their minds. The world is getting heartily sick of continued orchestrated violence in order to avoid accounting for where all the funds have gone, why no effort has been made to improve life.

The Palestinian's are about to suffer badly based upon public perception of the perfidious-Pakistani regime and Muslim nations in general. It isn't too hard, pictures of Palestinian's rejoicing after September 11 were distributed far and wide, they'll stick in peoples minds just like the protests about the death of Bin Laden now... Slow learners really, all through history the ability to play both ends against the middle has been a medium term proposition at best, sooner or later both ends turn on the middle.

Read the fine print of UN Resolution 181, a very good idea would be to encourage Israeli Muslims to vote in either the West Bank/Gaza elections. That would mean that they were subject to deportation at pleasure.