Yes, Bush and his caliphate did make bin Laden bigger.

Particularly by being arrogant in assuming they could deal with Afghanistan as superficially as they initially did, before moving on to deal with Iraq as superficially as they also initially did.

Set their own 'agenda' back 10 years or more, and that is the legacy we are and continue to deal with.

Sometime you have to expose your enemy, and bring them out of hiding. The death of Bin Laden has brought the enemy out of hiding to spout their threats. While they are hidden in caves away from public eyes they canot be traced. This act has identified the enemy of civilized society.

Dear McReal, thanks for your comment.I know there is no ' quick
fix ' but there appears to be no 'slow fix ' either. Out of interest, how do you see our (Oz) ethical stance in terms of Iraq and
Afghanistan in terms of on-the-ground support ?

[Deleted for abuse.]

So Osama has well served his purpose, friend of Presidents, a highly promoted star of audio and video, imaginative scriptwriters and animators, but in this week’s account, instead of bringing things down he has raised up the possibilities of Obama becoming re-elected as President for yet another term of do-nothing politics

There is an Almighty after all. The Democrats thank you (The alternaqtive was to have been Clinton, a nauseous option)

Amazing what he been able to do in such a short time.

Bin Laden has left his mark, CIA exaggerated, CIA highly marketed and CIA well funded. He really must have wondered at times what it was all about as he kept getting the blame for everything that went bang in the night when clearly, based on facts, most were false flag exercises. So whenever he died and yes, we are all aware of this week’s theatre, he must have marvelled at the power of the printed word which created him, enlarged him, polished him and which proved, yet again, that if you have kidney failure ten years ago, or as with the current iteration end up with a bullet over your left eye hiding then not hiding behind a wife, armed, then not armed, watched by a 12 year old old daughter then dumpled unceremoniously into a shark infested ocean, whatever Disney created that week, which was different to this week and somewhat different to next week, you will most assuredly have died.

And at some time, he probably did.
(Screen rights available.. Apply White House Movie Productions, Washington. Fees to go to the Elect-Obama-Fund)

Some cave Philo. And only metres away from the Military Academy in
Abbottabad. Love to know your definition of 'civilised'society.

Dear Lockhartlofty. In Australia, more than 500,000 of us have an acquired brain injury. I am unaware of the number of Catholics in this group. In my defence, I did say I was a lapsed Catholic and in relation to the second part of your perceptive contribution to the conversation, alas,I suspect you are right.

Celebrations taking place over someone's death feels somewhat uneasy
especially when one can recall Madeline Albright, a former secretary of state in the Clinton administration stating - that 800,000 deaths, "were worth the cost."

The solidarity of any community is enhanced if it perceives a common outside threat.

Tess,
constructive roles in Afghanistan and Iraq for the sake of those countries and their communities & citizens well-being is fine. Pity it was seen as too easy initially.

Tess Lawrence,
Philo said "they' are hiding in caves. OBL wasn't included in his statement. Also, the civilised society you question in such a sarcastic manner is the same society that keeps you & lets you sleep at night (maybe during the day as well) & wake up to spend another rose-coloured day in that civilised society. It may even be the society you helped create at the last federal election. It may not be to your liking that we call ourselves civilised but we do provide you with a better life than the Taliban would were you to go to Pakistan to live.

Whenever I see the words journalist-advocate married like that, I think Byron Bay loony. It's a Pavlovian reaction. Think poledancing- airline pilot, bear baiting-brain surgeon or a train driving doctor. One of these things has to go.

It's hard for the TS Eliot quoting left to deny that when two planes are smashed in to the Twin Towers killing thousands, that it's not an act of war.

And here comes the nasty bit Tess. The US won't stop. It's a seed tree extermination of Al Queda.

Dear Cheryl, I take exception to your cruel words. Pole dancing
is a noble profession.

What a naïve trickle of nonsense!

Tess has the style which might make her a success in producing items for the social pages, but she has neither the comprehension nor the temperament to attempt this topic

Who cares whether she rejoices in the death of Bin Laden? Everyone is entitled to their own reaction, and it has little relevance to the overall situation.

The only sensible course of action on Bin Ladin was his termination. It is a shame that the current dunce in the White House has made such a mess of handling the presentation of it.

It is reminiscent of when Carter was President, and the US became a world laughing stock

Bush put in train the events which led to this successful milestone, and the follow up required someone of his calibre. Without him this outcome would never have been achieved.

Obama is like the dog which one day caught the truck he chased every day. He has no idea what to do with it.

How do you fathom the mentality of someone who spends millions of dollars blocking access to evidence of his birth, and then produces that evidence?

John Donne was right. “Any man’s death diminishes me, because I am involved with Mankind; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee.”
Tess Lawrence was right at least twice over.
1)Osama's extrajudicial execution is no cause for celebration.
2)Bush the Younger morphed a criminal act into an act of war.
How much better would the world be today had 9/11 been treated as the horrendous crime it always was! Police (if need be with military backing) could and would have been dispatched to apprehend and arrest. We could have had a public trial instead of a mafia hit with a body now 'sleeping with the fishes'. Isn't that directly from the first Godfather?
But never doubt that the legacy of 9/11 will live with us for ages to come. Look around - do you see all those CCTV cameras following your every move?
Thanks George. Thanks Osama.

But never doubt that the legacy of 9/11 will live with us for ages to come
halduell,
It is the legacy of us which brought about 9/11. It might make us cringe in shame but it won't hurt us westerners to look over & beyond the white picket fence without rose-coloured glasses.
I certainly don't like what terrorism is doing but I can't help thinking that much of comes from our actions.

Reading between the lines I have to agree with "Cheryl" - this article is a waste of time. But I can't resist responding.

George W represents a major blip in the U.S. political system, but did the world a favour - by highlighting the manic approach the U.S. had taken for so long to world affairs. We don't need to revisit Vietnam, etc.... Bin Laden pointed the finger at the U.S. for past and continuing misdeeds, and called for reprisals. George W responded with more of the same old U.S. response, but with brass knobs on. Where are things now? Trying to unravel, to win hearts and minds with "reconstruction" - but in who's image? Fortunately events in Tunisia, Egypt, etc may eventually achieve what the U.S. was never going to be able to achieve with its heavy handed approach - freedom and democracy for the populace, and an end to the massive graft and corruption supposedly fueled by U.S. handouts.

The major problem remains - how to exit honourably. Though Bin Laden was essentially no longer significant even before his death, he has nonetheless left a legacy of hate and memory which will be difficult to overcome. (I was going to say expunge - but that would be more of the same old mistaken approach.) Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen, Syria, Somalia, Bahrain, Iran, etc... The big question is whether the populace of these nations can achieve the "reconstruction" they all require, and whether the rest of the world can assist in this - but without unacceptable "meddling" in the process or in the resultant outcomes. I guess we will have to wait and see.

The world should be thankful that Barack Obama won the last U.S. presidential election over McCaine and his flibbertigibbet offsider, and we should all be hoping that he will be re-elected in 2012. He may not be perfect, and has perhaps tried to achieve too much too quickly, but he has given cause for hope for an end to what has been, and unfortunately still remains, a sad period in world history.

Tess,
I like your sentiments.
But as clever as they are.... and pertinent...., the fact remains that until the cycle of dirty, devious politics expires in the US, or the Chinese rise to #1 resulting from US debt and immorality, the world will be destined to tolerate the sludge that the US electoral system dredges up every four years to produce yet another corrupt collection of representatives; the cycle then off and running once again.
Then we will have even more farce as computer graphics improve even more, lies that are never reported nor seriously investigated, the development of wars in countries like Afghanistan growing the world's supply of drugs per courtesy of the US military, beneficiaries on the way through.

So we have a long way to go to clean the air, initiatives for which will not come from this little Pacific sporting stadium happy to remain a little tail attached to a large, overfed and belligerent attack dog. You don’t progress as a nation following other nations who in recent memory, have produced mass murderers such as Kennedy, Johnson , Bush and now the puppet, Obama.

So “pray for Osama who persecutes you” is the message today.

A rationalist may see the logic in the theme.
Others, however, will sweep the story of Osama bin Laden from their consciousness treating the whole al Qaeda matter as they would another regrettable international misadventure, instead as it was in reality just groups of isolated tribesmen from faraway places, united by an ordinary but organised man against his idea of evil, in this case
‘America, the terrorist invader’ and as the media tell the story, who went on to frighten the whole world by creating fear of the unknown (or, as not yet created by the CIA) . This has developed a whole new industry in which the two beneficiaries, Israel and the USA were best able to capitalise, which they did and are still doing today.

So what’s new?

End of story, says Obama. We have some more videos to make and an election to fight.

So you don't think that Bin Laden organised and funded terrorist actions and organisations around the world including 9/11? What reaction would you have expected from a nation like the U.S to an action like that on its soil - turn the other cheek? I'm willing to accept that the truth can be muddled or lost in the politics and that root causes of conflict are often overlooked but to suggest that Bin Laden was nothing more than an exaggerated fantasy of the U.S sounds silly.

Leo Lane,

Someone of Bush's calibre, eh...pretty hard act to follow.

I've often thought that people misunderestimated George W., and, you know, his dumb act was really just that. I mean, any man who says: "I know that human being and fish can co-exist peacefully." could never be construed as a warmonger...he knows a thing or two about getting along.

Bush was a man who knew his own mind. He once said:
"I know what I believe. I will continue to articulate what I believe and what I believe - I believe what I believe is right."

He also knew what it took to ram the message home to the people: "See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda."
(Perhaps part of Karl Rove's "Propaganda 101" - and something George wasn't supposed to divulge)

George could cope very well without rehearsal - his on-the-spot responses are legendary:
"I wish you'd have given me this written question ahead of time so I could plan for it. I'm sure something will pop into my head here in the midst of this press conference, with all the pressure of trying to come up with an answer...."

And bin Laden was all important - sometimes - like on Sept 13, 2001:-
"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority."

...but not such a priority on on March 12, 2002:
"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not our country."

And, of course, Bush had a very difficult job: -
"You know, one of the hardest parts of my job is to connect Iraq to war of terror."

Really, his own words say it all.

Tess, I have real difficulty with journalists feeding off such tragedies in order to vent their self righteous indignation.

What is it that motivates journalists to scrape round the bottom of the human values barrel? It’s like going through someone’s garbage bin for a story.

The range of apologists we have had to tolerate has been sickening. That you are offended by the actions to erase OBL from the face of the earth is clear. Many are also offended by the satisfaction expressed by the news of his departure. The raw human emotions that we express from time to time are reactions to grief, terror, loss, anger frustration and even love.

We are all diminished whenever such emotions are disproportionate. That does not justify your sickening appeasement of that which has caused so much grief to so many. If the only impact upon your life has been to offend your sensitivity, you are very fortunate.

If you genuinely believe that OBL was less of a bad guy than some others might think, that just puts you at the other end of a spectrum of opinion and you are entitled to that.

You seem to think that because you are offended you have the right to offend those at the other end of the values spectrum. There are some in this country who might agree with your sentiments, I suspect however, there are many more who could be forgiven for seeing you as part of a maladjusted minority. God preserve us from nihilists

I've been re-reading the book, "Believers: Does Australian Catholicism Have a Future?" by Paul Collins and I came across some interesting thoughts that I thought might be appropriate to the topic under discussion here...

Paul Collins points out that " In contrast to Christianity, the other monotheistic religions, Judaism and Islam, believe in "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth." There are many non-violent Jews and Muslims who are committed to peace, but Christ is the first person in history to say that the vendetta and the desire for revenge are totally inappropriate responses for his followers. As the Jewish critic George Steiner says in his wonderful intellectual autobiography, "Errata" the most scandalous thing about Christianity is that it believes in forgiveness, even of an enemy. "Christ's ordiance of total love, of self-offering to the assailant is, in any strict sense, an enormity. The victim is to love his butcher. A
monstrous proposition. But one shedding fathomless light. How are mortal men and women to fulfill it? Here is the real core of Christ's
moral teaching. Everything else is secondary."

Nevertheless forgiveness can seem like weakness, especially within an extreme terrorist context where the 'lex talionis' is seen as justified and even exalted by some Muslims as an aspect of 'jihad.'

This confronts the Christian with the question of how we should respond to outrages like the 9/11 terrorist attacks on New York, and the Bali, Madrid and London bombings. Should we have turned the other cheek? What would that achieve?

Collins tells us that, "Personally, I think it would achieve a lot more that the so-called 'war on terror.' Only a truly superior statesperson would have shamed and isolated the terrorists by saying, 'I forgive you.' This would have had to have been accompanied by intelligent and astute diplomatic and political work to isolate the terrorists and by appealing to the vast majority of sensible, civilised and peaceful Muslims..." Collins adds the comment that:

"Sadly we are not governed by such intelligent political leaders."

No doubt when George Bush dies the delight on the faces of many of the lefties will be undeniable. What a bitter article.

I question the mental state of the writer.

It seems to me Tess you are still absorbed of your hate of all things Bush and Howard and Blair.

It seems you have forgotten Osama Bin Laden was responsible for the deaths of thousands of non combatants in NY one morning not so long ago.

Tell me how George and Tony and John were responsible for that.

That was what bought the goose to prominance along with all those hate filled videos he showered you media and which you showed with such glee or at the very least without condemnation.

Nothing much else was done by looney bin laden.

George and co wipped out his terror camps in Afghanistan. And it seems their destruction of that other arab loon in baghdad might just now be leading to fundamental changes in the mid east.

Tell me how do you feel about the current kiddies labor government's committment to Afghanistan? It's more relevant than raking over the long dead ashes of 10 years ago.

No bin ladan was still active and was still trying to wage his war.

I too was raised with catholicism. I've become irreligious but live as best I can according to The Sermon on the Mount.

I can forgive bin laden his sins and hurts but I cannot come to accept he wasn't responsible for all those deaths.

Keith ,Bin Laden like Saddham was a US creation.They created him and thus disposed of him to begin a new war of imperialism for more oil,resources and power.

Tess, the responses to your article are enlightening. They speak volumes about the power of propaganda to shape our perceptions which continue regardless of the evidence. Most of the correspondent's here seem impervious to evidence. They seem determined for example to blame bin Laden for the events of 11 September 2001. Bin Laden in his last known authentic interview (September 2001) denied all knowledge and all involvement in the events of that day. The FBI says they have "no hard evidence" connecting OBL with 9/11 and Cheney has admitted much the same thing.
Yet the same mindless repetition of OBL being responsible for the deaths of thousands on 9/11 plagues the media and websites such as this one.
If people are genuinely interested in finding out about 9/11 they might like to read the Open Chemistry & Physics Journal, April 2009. An article by 9 scientists in this peer reviewed journal reported their finding (since confirmed elsewhere) of nano-thermite in the debris of the three WTC towers that came down that day.
Nano-thermite is a highly classified explosive substance. It cannot be bought on ebay or made in a cave in Afghanistan.
In short, the nano-thermite was the reason the towers came down in the way they did, irrespective of whether or not you believe the official conspiracy theory about 19 Muslim fanatics taking over 4 planes and flying two of them into the WTC towers.
Whoever planted the nano-thermite was the true cause of the deaths of those nearly 3000 people. Much easier of course to have a simple bad guy mythology rather than examining the evidence and asking the hard questions.

Good post, Poirot, I always have a laugh when reminded of “misunderestimated”.

George W lost his first election, where he presented as a smart young fellow with degrees from Harvard and Yale.

His opponent characterised him as a young know-all who thought he knew best what was needed by the community from which he wished to elicit votes.

George was never outdumbed after that, and did not lose elections. His ability, to present himself as dumb, is outstanding, and his mangling of words never failed to attract attention, hilarity, and publicity.

Of course I forgive Bin Laden, he is only human, and humans are so complicated that one should be more surprised at how well they generally turn out rather than shocked at a dismal malfunction like him.

Again, out of consideration for the community, I would have happily put a bullet or two through Bin Laden's head, but I would do it without malice, simply to make the world a better place.

Tess, and if you want to know just how bad it gets for those whose paranoia you feed, just look at the contribution from James O’Neil. Its all Nano-thermite, yes it’s true.

James, don’t waste your energy on paranoia, the world really is out to get you. Just five more minutes to wait and someone will bring your Meds

Kieth states "It seems you have forgotten Osama Bin Laden was responsible for the deaths of thousands of non combatants in NY one morning not so long ago."
This appears to be the main problem. People remember the twin towers but never seem to remember why Bin Laden destroyed them along with thousands of lives.
The reasons were three fold as articulated by Bin Laden himself. First, the hundreds of thousands of deaths of Iraqi children due to the harsh sanctions following the first gulf war which denied them basic medical care and the ability to keep their water purification systems running. That is many, many more innocent lives than were taken in the twin towers.
Secondly was the western troops based in Saudi Aria, the Muslim Holy lands.
Thirdly was the ongoing US support of the Israeli military occupation of Palestine.
Al Qaida could have been destroyed simply by addressing these issues. Instead we have invaded two more muslim countries bringing tens of thousands of deaths to their inhabitants. Surely only a recipe for more terrorism.

Well said, James O'Neill.

Forget the spindocs of this world.

Any worthy publication on the web has long since dismissed bin Laden as a possible contender for the 9/11 crown. But finding people who can understand the science, the facts and the logic, simple stuff really, is the one thing the perpetrators relied on and they were right. People just do not give a damn.
We must be something of a joke to them.

Time will shown that Pakistan was a charade, a necessary charade for a specific purpose all to do with internal management of that country, part of the US long range chess game for that part of the world.

Right now the CIA and the government of the US, both needing to have been involved in 9/11 and a willing part of the planning by others as well, know that there is nothing that they cannot pull off without complete success. They clearly have the people's measure.
It started with the media, then the weak elected representatives, (mainly the US but spreading), then a professional and well funded military organisation and lastly, an insidious localised parasitic web of operatives in every country in the world. Yes, here as well.

Now if that doesn't scare you, nothing will.

So sit back and enjoy. Stopping this train to change direction will take more than a public uprising. It will require worthy leaders in desperately short supply, anywhere with backbone to publicly identify the problems so the people will follow and support them, a justice system that has yet to be corrupted and the ability to overcome the big guns of world money backed by the military/industrial complex as you re-arrange their vested interests. They like it as it has become.

Sounds impossible. It isn't, but you have to want it to happen. They're counting on that NOT happening and seeing some of the comments here today, they're probably correct.

Let me give a better opening for this article: "He's not a terrorist, he's a very naughty boy."

Tess, do you believe that militant Islamism is a genuine entity, or a great Western conspiracy?

OBL may not have been the mastermind behind every terrorist act committed for Allah, but he did become the symbolic figurehead of the New Terrorism for many of us. And the poster-boy for every wannabe martyr.

Bush may have given him more credit than he was due, but Mr bin-Laden accepted his new status and reveled in it. He directed threats and vitriol towards the West. He played a high stakes game and lost. He's certainly not deserving of any sympathy.

Just the fact that we're having a discussion such as this one with a wide variety of views I think is a good thing. Our political conversation must shift away from the mass, infantile finger-pointing that now pervades it. Many of the things that most of us were brought up to think "could never happen here," have already begun to happen -
dangerous scapegoating, violent hate crimes, small-minded intolerance for the views of others. It is important therefore that we renew dignified and respectful dialogue with those who don't agree with us than that we keep slavishly congratulating those who have the wisdom to see things our way.

Lexi you are right. The article however is full of venom which opens itself to contempt.

Leo Lane,

Yep - "misunderestimated" is a classic.

But, pray tell - are you telling me you believe that George only "pretended" to be dumb? That his scintillating ability to pretend to be less intelligent than he really is - is something we should praise.

Why would a president wish to portray himself as a word-mangling dummy?

Nope - I think if it looks like a dumb president and talks like a dumb president - then it is a dumb president.

Here's a little background picture from his Harvard Business School professor:

http://www.rawfoodinfo.com/articles/art_thedunce.html

James O'Neil we truthers seem to be growing expodentially.This is an important video for all 911 truthers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7z-FQUrfhc This building was a failed controlled demolition.We are used to seeing concrete steel re-inforced building collapsing perfectly into their own footprints.

This video reveals the strength of modern buildings.It totally rolls over and remains intact.There is no way that ordinary jet fuel fires could have produced the images of the Towers collapsing at the freefall speed of gravity into their own footprints with no evidence of layered flooring.

Greetings rexw.Good to see your comments again.

Dear runner,

You know that I respect your opinion even though we don't always agree. A vital, healthy society is not one in which we all agree. It is one in which those who disagree can do so with honour and respect for other peoples' opinions and an appreciation of our shared humanity. The point that I was trying to make was that without personal commitment to the atributes of fair play and integrity, we're in grave danger. Malice and intolerance stalk our society, staking claims to our minds, and not one corner of our social order is unaffected. But of course it's not going to be easy, however I believe we must try.

The mealy-mouthed, craven bilge spouted by the Left in the wake of Osama bin Laden's entirely justified death in combat makes me weep for the days when the Left actually had some moral backbone, or just plain cojones.

'One finds that they do not by any means express impartial disapproval but are directed almost entirely against Britain and the United States. Moreover they do not as a rule condemn violence as such, but only violence used in defence of western countries,' as Orwell wrote (speaking of Pacifists, but the broad point applies to today's Left just as fittingly).

At least some still have the guts to speak truth: Brendan O'Neill at spiked-online wrote that, 'the chattering classes’ ‘uncomfortable feeling’ with the killing of bin Laden is underpinned more by moral cowardice than political principle ... because much of the ‘uncomfortable feeling’ over the killing of bin Laden is really an ‘uncomfortable feeling’ with, if not outright disgust for, ‘them’, the people who make up America, and for the ideals of modern America itself.'

Or Nick Dyrenfurth, who wrote, 'last week the world learned of the death of a misogynistic, homophobic, racist mass murderer who supported a theocratic, neo-fascist ideology posing as a liberation movement ... no self-respecting social democrat mourned his death. And yet, had one's daily reading habits been confined to sections of so-called "progressive" opinion, bin Laden's death was a matter of profound regret.'

They paraded Saddham's son's corposes through the streets and showed the grisly body of Saddham hung.With the so called death of Osama he is captured alive ,shot in the head and promptly buried at sea.They release old fake photos of Osama and then have to retract them.

We have no body,no DNA,no photos no evidence that this was him.The special forces have cameras affixed to their helmets.Where is the video? Benazir Bhutto said he died back in 2001.Osama was a very ill man who needed renal dialysis.

For justice seen to be done Osama should have stood trial.The FBI have never wanted Osama for the attacks of 911 since they do not have the evidence.

Arjay, lean in close because I'm going to have to say this softly. I can reveal the real 911 conspiracy.

Henri Paul, Princess Di's driver (yes, he didn't really die) was again the driver in this instance. He drove Harold Holt (another faked death) and the gunman from the grassy knoll to the twin towers. Actually, I've said too much. You will have to work out the rest...

I apologise for going so low with my humour (?) but I just cannot believe people buy all the conspiracy theory tripe about 911. Can you honestly believe that a conspiracy this big could possibly be hidden? Can you honestly believe that a government would kill 3000+ of its own people? It's just not possible. For every "expert" who tells us the building can't have collapsed that way, there are 100 who say it can and it did.

If you must persist with these theories, please confine yourself to the websites that fellow believers flock to and leave this forum for reasoned debate.

enough of the foreplay

""Remember the Coalition of the Willing?
What was all that about?..Does anyone care?""

yes im willing..[willing peace..
here/now..on earth]

that the peacemaker come..*here..
to reveal the good's of..[god]..
the good..*of all living

i care not..if it be
the faulse/peace-maker
or the 'surr-real thing'

once we got peace's..gifts/benifiots..grace/mercy
well i figure..build it
*he will come..

the band of the willing
were willing to bind us..and blind us
and generally keep.../on..*divide-ing us

they think of..us
as U.S....

as the un-willing..great unwashed
[beer swilling...fear instilling...[yobs]

they..being mate's
the unwilling...becomes their pet hate[us]..

feed for the unleaven gist..they begot...
with fear beatup/lie and spin...onto our plate....

[arnt the oh so clever
mere/men..just too great?]

""Both Bush..and bin Laden
were brothers in alms""

both SERVING THE GOD OF DEATH/darkness
serving the dead god of war
[worsing the ERROR..
hidden in t-error

""as well as..brothers in arms.""
saudie arms sales?
cia gun running?

bush/dad..ran it
bin lid..was a creation..'of it'

""Monies for War.""
bankers finance..*both sides

[ok now a day
its day traters/bonds men]
but war...pays off the bond...via 'econmic activity'

killing a cuntry..to rebuild a count-ry

""War for Monies...""
plenty...[too much]
the banklers are ADDICTED to it

thus washing clean..the dirty money
is the only money they got...

[lest we forget about libia]
who made their new banking system
[own much GOLD*..in their vault

*gold]

recalling the gold
that dissappeared...911

building 7 had lots of gold
wasnt recoverd*

""Done deal.""

the love of money
makes sane men go funny

it may be your words
but im remided talk is cheap
spinis cheep/cheep..[endless repition]

cheep..cheap...cheat
[sorry mind clearing excersize]

""They needed one another.""
but how can one country
declare war..

*on a theology..
of death/fears/dis-imfranchis-maent
that serves not the equally living loving good of god

'"They were both feeding off the same plate.""
fed directly from the...de-mans..of hell

""The rest of us were served the leftovers."'
salt that has lost its taste?

the vile loves doing their vile better
that we...{claiming of the good[of god]..
did with less PASSION...[salt]

""Those leftovers weren’t Halal.
They weren’t Kosher...They weren’t even edible.

You can’t eat lies
but you can cook them.""

spin/hide them...confuse them..colour them
...so they dont taste/look/smell..like the bitter fruits

""You can’t force feed us with them.""
""Even though we swallow them for a while...
They were served up....*every which way.

Lies overdone.
Lies underdone.
Lies easy over.
Lies done over.

You can fool some of the people
some of the time,

but you can’t fool all of the people
all of the time;....doesn’t stop...*our governments from trying.

This bin Laden was...the likes of The Donald Rumsfeld,
Dick Cheney,..and Karl Rove,

who gathered around steaming cauldrons of war,
beating drums in time to the thoughtful"""

what..!
thoughtfull?

where is my concordance
autonimouse[steaming caldrins
wet the drun skin
only the zealots can hear their muffled sob''

""playing of their beholden
and strictly coiffed White*

xtian..biggoted..biased hatefull/spitefull

""housekeeper,...."SS"
neo con men

AHHHH-men

Any criticism born of ignorance, mistrust, or hatred is not only ineffectual and a complete waste of time, it is harmful and elicits equally pointless and damaging responses. Prejudice has made damned experts of us all.

Uh-oh. Here's a worry.

>>James O'Neil we truthers seem to be growing expodentially.<<

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=12013#206529

That word... I've seen it somewhere before...

Ah yes, here it is:

>>Antiseptic, Thanks for picking me up on the spelling error. The word I was thinking of was expodential...<<

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=11291#191221

Oh dear.

Can it be true that the arch-9/11-Truther and the arch-Creationist-Truther are in fact one and the same individual?

Has anyone ever seen Arjay and Dan S de Merengue in the same room?

Thought not.

It would certainly explain a great deal.

Now that's what I call a conspiracy...

Thanks for the feedback Poirot, it clarifies your approach.

I would not take too much notice of the lefties in relation to Bush. They are generally deluded, or liars, or both.

Comments by his students on the Professor, who is said, in the article to which you give the site, to have maligned Bush, while generally complimentary, make it clear that he is a lefty, or as they say in the States, a “liberal”.

One student broke ranks and said “What's challenging about this class is sitting through his boring lectures, reading his poorly written text (everything you read in this class is bias and written by the professor) and tolerating his hate for the U.S. Oh, and the fact that he uses the classroom as a political forum is disgusting as well. Not an intellectually stimulating class.”

Hatred of the US easily translates into hatred of Bush, or, for that matter, love of Obama.

My comment was meant to convey that Bush did what he saw as necessary to win the election. The US seems to want dumb Presidents, so that is what he gave them. He only just beat Gore, so they must like insane Presidents as well, but marginally prefer dumb ones.

Going on Bush’s achievements, rather than his presentation, I would not class him as dumb.

Going on the lefty lies about him, is another matter. It was nice to see Dan Rather end his own career, as a left wing liar, and TV news anchor man of CNN, by presenting a forged document to the public in an attempt to discredit Bush.

I follow my instincts on these things. Sorting out facts becomes a mammoth task, and my intuition rarely lets me down.

Best wishes.

Leo, Leo, Leo,

So, in your opinion, anyone who perceived Georgie to be a tad dimmer they they would expect of their average president, must be a liar.
(absolutely, fair enough - I can see your logic there)

I don't think the people of the U.S. want their presidents to be dumb - even if he does provide free entertainment.

What achievements?....unless you count enriching armaments manufactures and the various American corporations benefitting from all the taxpayer dollars flowing to the contractors in Iraq.

I suppose, however, that one has to give credit where it's due - profits were forthcoming from both ends of the Iraqi operation - in the knocking it down - and in the building it back up.... (a stroke of genius, no doubt)

Anyway, Bush wasn't running the show - the rest of "em were. He was like one of those dummies that ventriloquists sit on their laps - and you didn't have to be a "leftie" to ascertain that.

Dear poirot,

Perhaps what Leo's trying to say is that people "misunderestimated"
George W.?

Rational debate it seems is incapable of such notions.Ad hominem is the best that the mass debater can muster.Not one word of logic or science.I suggest you study very carefully this site. http://www.ae911truth.org/

When you have assimilated the science,irrational debater, then we can enter into logical discourse,

Arjay - I have been to that site and as an educated person, very quickly ascertained it was not worth wasting my time on. Facts interest me, even some theories I will willingly entertain and pursue. However, the fanciful rantings contained on that site do not qualify. I find it sad, genuinely sad, that people will promote such thoughts. What their motivation is, I can only imagine.

ration/all debait

quote
""I find it sad,..genuinely sad,
that people will promote such thoughts.""

i find it sad you didnt even try to rebut
EVEN ONE...[pre judgment is a two edged sword

i suppose much depends....""What their motivation is,""
this is explained in many links..at the link
we are taling about a group of elites people
in power seizing a destructive derstactive event
so as to fullfill tHEIR OWN ADGENDA...usibng/abusing the usa as bad as those invaded by lIES

""I can only imagine.""
well thats ok..

..'ration
al-debate'

some simply cant face facts..!

thus are stuck with only the delusions
they and their controlers..*imagine up..for their consciences

if your too afraid
to look into the mirror

your not alone
what you afraid of

at least refute one point...!
your non reply speaks volumes

UOG - present for me some compelling, peer-evaluated research, from a reputable source/journal that even suggests any of the conspiracy guff around 911 is based in fact and I will happily respond to it. Sadly, no such material exists. I will not argue about unsubstantiated theories. I'm sorry, but the same quality of "proof" exists for these theories as exists for the so called "faked" moon landing and a flat earth.

What am I afraid of? I am afraid of what people who believe this stuff might actually do about it and how many impressionable young minds might follow them.

By the way, I am talking exclusively about 911 conspiracy and not any other theories or belief systems that others might hold. I am not commenting on political or religious beliefs. (Just thought that was important to clear up).

Those who fail to consider all that is rational have failed to initiate any debate. http://www.ae911truth.org/ 400 professors, 1500 Architects and Engineers,220+ Ex-Military,CIA,Govt officials World leaders etc,400+ Medical Drs, 200+ Entertainers.Are they all insane?
http://patriotsquestion911.com/

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

mate..if you havnt noted the strange things
its not for me to explain it

arjay raised 911..
[and having studied the topic many times..
i can only agree with him]

just the fact..that these steel frame buildings
[the only steel buildings to collapse[ever]
let alone collapse in their own footprint

were under a repair order..of two billion asbestos removal
[as part of their rental agreement[under 99 year lease]
that wasnt able to be done..cause no insurance people
would insure it..

was well under used
double insdured for what happend
[when your own insurance specificly excludes acts of 'war']

busche immediatly declared 'it' an act of war
yet an israel insuror..[well underwritten by non isralies]
paid out the double event claim in full

[thus never needing looking into..
even by those who underwrote..the origonal insurance]

add in the thermite chance findings
add in biger planes have ghit smaller buldings
burned longer/hotter yet they didnt fall down[into their footprint]

add in the leasor...saying were bringing it down
vbbc reporting it fell..BEfore the building fell
mate there are hundreds of points

there was on THAT very day
a rehersal to practice that very event
when it all became only too real..
the vp was asked if it was still a go

mate it stinks to high heaven
most of those named as the highjackers have been found to not have ben on the dam,m plane at anyrate...[but finding two new crip pasports was some proof?]..but no bodies

the steel was imediatly recycled
no investigation[like a plane wreck]
of reconstructing what realy happend

mate we could go on
but please rebut something at arjays links
yer bugging me boy

[you can chose to ignore the proof [presented
but rebut with proof..by revealing

..by what authority you speak
when facts are uncertain..those
not asking..for investigation become suss

Arjay and OUG - I asked for peer reviewed research and you have provided none (and we all know why). So until you provide what I have asked for I will not be "debating" your 200+ entertainers.

By the way, are they all insane? I shall resist answering...

i suggest you do the research

http://searchportal.information.com/?epl=gxhOxo0K-pqoV70m2WKDJpBptfkHCYVTJHfxbyCy9OI6IPjYXZEaTBAdREU82sVrMQ9toiI-kmekYtQmiVoF_WE5JD6qGBIPHuQBaUT7yYkTuEJz1IIBsRQ5OY44GRy_U3_jSpSVGgUI984sKBZIEZKAcZGF9LiwQqLcPqgYYHR_qCYtg-yoGjORKJDWhetPavR9wd6FTNuV-aBPjdAhMS1CnK0jTYmoNmgZRiRiLUxb1h14dA-5gVvFBx1wULN9DakYrfkAJyLxpWj4KAgVP9Dk14Bc1BVyPBxyMM9mLMBUqCb8cKgaJhWSvU4cNTXB4L6XF9ZMw3SW7qRn8OOsssnDkN1JoyGE4oYcpjuvjjrzmjXtqih_qaim3MhO3bLrMxdovBPiQxHGovx0-cTlX_fGWYNNz_D3YocExrfyPrHh9WNI6LapQGgZAFCPTG0KoBEaQgZMA00jRkMmAzQajaH6iYwp0zRoop-iESZTk6kBJW0BMODf_78AQASA8v8FAABAgF8iAACZVpt_WVMmWUExNmhaQkwCAADw&query=9%2011&ot=1&click_token=nu-XNtyLwf4KEwiHi_bEt_KoAhXHDqQKHQhOGlsYACAAWQs3NIdSIDXB&search_token=klJhVLNayjcKEwiHi_bEt_KoAhXHDqQKHQhOGlsYAyAAWQs3NIdSIDXB

or put your questions [specific questions]
here..[what you want proof for..*]

i got other things to do rather than rechase
all over the web again

to prove something
to one who thinks he can get others..to do his work for him/her

try visiting

http://www.prisonplanet.com/

New Al Qaeda Leader
Claims He Has Nothing To Do With Al Qaeda,
Calls 9/11 A “Fabrication”
http://www.prisonplanet.com/new-al-qaeda-leader-claims-he-has-nothing-to-do-with-al-qaeda-calls-911-a-%e2%80%9cfabrication%e2%80%9d.html

Amidst reports that Saif al-Adel,
otherwise known as Muhammad Ibrahim Makkawi,
has been appointed the new al Qaeda leader,..a man claiming to be the real Makkawi..insists that he has nothing to do with al Qaeda and describes 9/11 as a “fabrication”.

or if you dont like alex
http://whatreallyhappened.com/

or if yiou just like wasting my time watch you tube
just enter 911...you will see the experts doing their thing

google architecs 911
or any other speciality/plus 911

there is so much proof out there
im not about to teach an ignoramus
in one post...things it took me 8 years to find

im more into working
on things i can hope to change

today*
not rehashing yesterday for a troll
trying to score points

OUG - I'd be curious as to your definition of a troll. Pretty sure it doesn't apply in this instance. Just a handy insult, was it?

You have directed me to a website that kicks off with "Obama birth certificate a fake!" Quality... If you are naive enough to think that he could get away with such a thing in this day and age, what can I say?

This will be my final comment on this matter. I read extensively when all this 911 conspiracy stuff came up. I do not simply trust what the government tells me, however, I do trust what I saw and what cannot be disputed. I scoured the Internet for information, read international papers from all over the world, etc. As I repeatedly state - I found a lot of opinion but NO PEER REVIEWED FACT.

Simply put, this is a political agenda and a dangerous one at that. You are poisoning simple minds with this rubbish and when someone dares to ask for FACTS he is a troll. Top shelf debating!

You have enough websites where you can chat with your like-minded friends, so please go there and stay off ones like this that are aiming for reasoned, fact based debate. You don't belong, as you continue to prove.

irrational opinion
or rationalising the debait

quote..""stay off ones like this""

ie on line OPINION
NOT ON LINE DEBATE
NOT ONLINE RATIONALISATION

get it?

stay off this one?..""that are aiming for reasoned,
fact based debate."""

OPINION

OPINION

opinion...!

""You don't belong,
as you continue to prove.""

that your OPINION...!

you got any facts
or just more OPINION..?