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The Forum > Article Comments > The public narrative on a carbon price > Comments

The public narrative on a carbon price : Comments

By Joel Dignam, published 10/5/2011

Not everything is black or white, not even the carbon debate.

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Roses1 - I actually never said anything about the existence or otherwise of man-made climate change, in that post at any rate. What I said was the public is switching off.. not tired of it, but switching off.. whether you seriously think a climate change is the result of industrial gases or not is totally beside the point I was making.

The carbon tax proposal remains the last gasp.. if it does go ahead it will make no difference whatever to carbon emissions world-wide - I think we can all agree on that - but in any case its the last ditch.

The tornados you mentioned in NZ and the US are in fact due to cooler temperatures. Its because we're in a la nina (global temperatures have plunged in the last few months, from the el nino highs of early last year). Check out the meterological sites if you don't believe me.

Both bushfires and hailstorms due to global warming? Scientists have been arguing over whether there is any long term trend in major storms for years now and, although global climate did warm a few tenths of a degree between 75 and 2000 about so you would expect something happen, they have yet to reach any definitive conclusion. And, no, earthquakes and tsunamis cannot be attributed to global warming.
Posted by Curmudgeon, Tuesday, 10 May 2011 2:02:23 PM
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Joel, a correction - there is no such thing as "zero carbon", only "carbon neutral", but, that aside, your piece contains so many assumptions and ill-founded conclusions I am aghast.

So much emotive language, "nefarious issue", "poisoned chalice". The issue of a carbon tax has been approached so many ways now, as though it is the best, if not "the only way" to tackle excessive CO2 emissions. What a load of hype.

Sorry to disagree, but a price on carbon won't achieve anything, at least not the way Ms G is proposing. If you want to offset emissions then we need to stop cutting down old-growth forests and start planting new forests, and start investing in sustainable energy - geothermal, hydro, solar, and maybe nuclear (as a last resort) - and providing positive (not negative) incentive for energy producers, industry and consumers to invest in green energy and bio-fuels, and in more energy-efficient production and consumption systems.

We need to stop addressing "the politics" and focus our attention on "the issue"! (It has been pretty obvious which camp the author sits in.) It is obvious that Oz' emissions are minuscule on the world scale, and if the per-capita picture is not so great, just look at the factors applying to this - huge distances, widespread communities, absence of nuclear, minuscule deployment of alternative (clean) energy technologies, and our climate and living standard. Do you want to destroy our standard of living to satisfy some misguided over-reaction to what is essentially a world problem, not an Oz problem. Please, we need some objectivity and common sense in this debate, not wild portents of doom and destruction.
Posted by Saltpetre, Tuesday, 10 May 2011 2:07:21 PM
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Hi Joel ,
I agree there is a need to green the carbon tax system to decouple the growth in oil consumption and greenhouse emissions from the growth of GDP and to encourage renewable energy. What I know is that the climate is growing more volatile and I do not know if we freeze or burn; either way we are dead. Being 75 and I want to go out fight ing. Let have a Churchillian carbon tax and try to reduce CO2 which is contributing to climate volatility which is the real problem. Part 1 below

1 Actions by state governments, local governments and private companies to reduce greenhouse gas emissisons :
2 To Make better use of the existing Australian car fleet by the provision more CNG infrastructure to encourage its use as transistional fuel for road vehicles and encourage the use of electric cars: gas /electric, petrol/electricand diesel/electric hybid cars.
3. Commonwealth to increase car fleet fuel efficiency by introducing “fuel efficiency standards for new cars including most 4WD's be 5 litres/100 km and for 4WDs with truck chassis to be 6.5 litres/100 km.
4 Establish the general principle that Salary packaging is a personal expense, for commuting or for vehicles owned by other family members. Season tickets on public transport, the running costs of electric bicycle and electric scooters for commuting or work business should be packaged instead.
5 Tax incentives for employers to promote telecommuting, car sharing, car co-operatives: no car parking for able bodied drive alone commuters.
6.Tax incentives for employers to provide electric car, electric scooter and electric bicycle recharging facilities and provide roof top wind energy or solar energy collectors
7 Carbon taxes raised to be used to build bikeway networks in all Australian cities, enhance rail infrastructure, extend rail services and express bus services into all outer urban areas and provide secure bicycle parking at all modal interchanges and railway stations.
Posted by PEST, Tuesday, 10 May 2011 3:04:48 PM
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Hi Joel ,
I agree there is a need to green the carbon tax system attached is part 2 of my CO2 reduction proposals. Note that these proposals have been submitted to Senate Carbon Tax inquriy. With 25 pages of evidence and references.

1. Encourage state planning agencies to constrain developers to reduce urban sprawl and provide public transport services in new residential and industrial areas and make urban areas more permeable with direct routes for walkers and cyclists.
2. Provide short cuts for pedestrians and cyclists, in existing built up areas: more light bridges, routes through both public and private properties, bridges over barriers, safe mid block main road crossings.
3. Improve CBDs by better linking of bike ways, better route signage and some shopping streets made one way for cars but are two way for pedestrians, cyclists, buses and trams to make it more convenient to go by bicycle than cars for trips of less than 5 km.
4. Policy support for the states to change the constitution of road planning agencies to make it their responsibility to reduce the; demand for road space, unsustainable travel, road congestion and the creation of a continuous arterial bike network within the overall hierarchy of urban roads.
5. Provide bike lanes on main roads and reduce speed limits 50 kph. When there is not room for a bikelane or bike path in the road reserve a safe alternative route would be provided on residential streets with a 30 km per hour speed limit as in the netherlands
Posted by PEST, Tuesday, 10 May 2011 4:00:49 PM
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Hi Joel ,
I. Attached is part of my CO2 reduction proposals. Note that these proposals have been submitted to Senate Carbon Tax inquriy. With 25 pages of evidence and references.

1. Provide policy support for the Commonwealth’s climate change and state environmental agencies to change the regulations to allow importing of electric bikes with power outputs 250 watts to EU regulltions sand permit battery charging solar photovoltaic cells. This will enable older people to continue cycling much longer.
2. Provide policy support for the Commonwealth to produce a national Energy Security Policy to mitigate oil dependency with both demand and supply side measures and to unilaterally reduce oil consumption by 2.2 % per year. This will mak a commitment to freeing Australia from oil dependence by 2020 as is being done in Sweden and Norway.
3. The Carbon tax Inquiry obtain a confidential briefing from the CSIRO to confirms that the emissions of CO2 will increase per barrel of oil produced by the gowing use of no-conventional oil supplies as previusly estimated by Foran and Poldyin 2002.
4. Provide funding for researching the use of thorium instead of uranium in nuclear reactors to produce electricity instead of brown coal and later black coal. Research to be a join effort with India, and China. Carbon capture and storage is coming - but instead of shoving our CO 2 emissions underground they can also be recycled .
5. Encourage and research CO2.recycling. Several companies have proposed turning cement making on its head, so that it captures more CO2 than it now generates; cement now produces around 5% of all Australian CO2 emissions.(MacKenna, P 2011)
6. The Tax Review needs to recommend creating an “Australian Strategic Oil Reserve”.

End
Posted by PEST, Tuesday, 10 May 2011 4:07:21 PM
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@ curmudgeon.
To quote Steve Earle: "The regular guy's world view is shaped by half an hour of TV news which he watches at night when he's very, very tired."
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Wednesday, 11 May 2011 4:32:10 PM
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