The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > The public narrative on a carbon price > Comments

The public narrative on a carbon price : Comments

By Joel Dignam, published 10/5/2011

Not everything is black or white, not even the carbon debate.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. Page 2
  4. 3
  5. All
The article is difficult to follow, but the author has forgotten one political reality in his analysis.

For I strongly suspect that the general voting public is switching off climate change. American newspapers say that the US president has stopped mentioning it altogether and, if it were not for the carbon tax and the Government's alliance with the greens, it might well be all but dead as a political issue here as well.

I'm not talking about the political caste who read newspapers and post on online opinion (I originally wrote educated elite, instead of political caste), but the much larger mass of voters who know nothing of the issue beyond the occasional TV news item and pub conversation.

Just why this has happened is a long story, but the carbon tax is the last gasp. If it doesn't get up, then nothing will. As I've said before a tax is completely pointless, so if it fails then all the better, but activists be warned - its the last gasp
Posted by Curmudgeon, Tuesday, 10 May 2011 11:28:26 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The best thing John can do is to get as many as possible to pick up rubbish. It is a disgrace that so many Aussies throw garbage out car windows. Leave the fortune telling to the high priests who rarely have got it right.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 10 May 2011 11:49:13 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
There seems to be a couple of familiar themes threaded through this article. The first is those “binary idiots” from the media that are not presenting your case very well. Secondly that the warmertariat is trying very hard to disassociate itself from what it perceives is a threat posed by the CO2 tax, at least to the extent that it might fail and take down with it the last vestiges of hope.

All we can say in response is, when you can come up with something better than computer predictions and fear, you will get an audience. The planet deserves something better but no matter how often the question is asked, you still don’t have an answer.

“The environmental movement has great strength". No, it has declining volume, not even enough strength to sustain itself.

” Masses of Australians want a safe climate, want a healthy environment. As a people, we want a safe future for our children,” correct, nobody would argue against such a statement but the perception of threat to all these issues created by you has worn off.

“and we want Australia to do what is right”. Who’s “we” and who determines what is “right”?

“What hamstrings the environmental movement is its inability to see a potential victory for what it is”. No, it is hamstrung because it cannot make a case that anyone besides a growing minority will support.
Posted by spindoc, Tuesday, 10 May 2011 12:11:32 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Oh Curm, just when I thought you were displaying some even handedness you have put your head back in the sand with your last comment, made I suspect from the comfort of your air conditioned office.
Sorry Curm, although we all get very tired of it (me included), man made climate change is not going to go away; we keep producing the problem gases and their concentration in the air goes up by a percent or two each year. In case you haven't noticed, the world's climate has already changed alarmingly in the past 50 years and its getting worse. Perhaps you need a tornado to take your roof off or have your car destroyed by hailstones as my neighbours here in Perth have had in the last 18 months. But then that's all natural variation isnt it; these severe events - Qld floods, Pakistan floods, bushfires in California Greece etc are all flukes?

Yes Joel, a C price is not the only way and I'm waiting for Tony Abbot et al to tell us about others they have in mind instead of parroting slogans. But but most who know the reality(including Gail Kelly Westpac, Turnbull and about half of the Liberal Party) agree it's a good start. Resource industries are not by the way evil but certainly greedy, self serving (corporations act) and narrow minded. They get electricty for 2- 5 c per kWh while we pay 18 plus. Does anyone think they'll let go of this easily? Of course not, it may cut into their 20%+ profits; hence the (often paid) opposition to C price. Will they get more energy efficient and less wasteful while energy is so cheap? Once again of course not - things that are so cheap are not valued. Incidentally those resource industries account for 50% of energy use in this state, while commercial and residential only account for 10%.
Posted by Roses1, Tuesday, 10 May 2011 12:27:40 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
An overall good article, Joel.

I particularly agree with this comment:

"General public opinion, debate, the media, the mainstream commentariat all seem to fall into the trap of seeing a rather over-simplified binary - those who support action on climate change also support a carbon price, and those who oppose a price do so solely because they don't think that Australia ought to be acting to reduce pollution."

This artificial dichotomy needs to stop hogging the debate - particularly in the main stream media, where most people get their information from. There are people who want to see the world act on climate change, but are not in favour of a carbon tax, or cannot see how it helps. There are also climate change "sceptics" who are in favour of incorporating externalities into energy policy (even excluding externalities related to greenhouse gases, coal loses on every account). See: http://www.externe.info/ . There are serious gains to be made here.

As for your concluding comment that "A price tag on pollution is a forest of opportunity for Australia to begin making clean energy cheaper and forcing businesses to take responsibility for the pollution they cause." - well, I think a forest of opportunity is a bit of an overstatement. As David Mackay said in his book 'Sustainable Energy - without the hot air', "if we all do a little, we'll achieve only a little". A carbon price might help the economics in the right direction and result in some minor improvements in efficiency and demand, but unless the absolute main focus is on replacing combustion power plants, it's a toothless beast, and often proves to be quite a distraction.

Tom Keen
Posted by TeeJKay, Tuesday, 10 May 2011 12:32:24 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
@ Roses1

"Yes Joel, a C price is not the only way and I'm waiting for Tony Abbot et al to tell us about others they have in mind instead of parroting slogans"

If by "et al." you mean the Coalition, Greens and Labor, I agree. There is almost nothing but rhetoric on how to tackle this issue coming out of Canberra, from all parties.

The world already has a very good example of a virtually decarbonised electricity grid: http://www.rte-france.com/fr/developpement-durable/maitriser-sa-consommation-electrique/eco2mix-consommation-production-et-contenu-co2-de-l-electricite-francaise . Maybe Australia should take note.
Posted by TeeJKay, Tuesday, 10 May 2011 12:41:43 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. Page 2
  4. 3
  5. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy