@Dan: Saturday, 21 May 2011 12:29:03 AM
"I’m simply challenging the notion that it (i.e. Evolution") has been seen. It hasn’t been."

I said:
"But even worse is that the Creationists tell lies - as they so often do - that we cannot
observe evolution today.

...
See:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91a7ZPZQUfk"

_____
This is NOT name calling (by me) of Creationists - it is statement of fact.

Evolution is provably observable in real-time, in the lab, today. The Creationist lies when they assert it cannot be observed (and have NEVER undertaken the experiment to check it for themselves).

One has to be careful about how Creationists mischievously misuse the word "Evolution" by their completely unsupportable phraseology of defining "Evolution as a change of kind".

"Kind" to them is a generic category based upon their use of gross phylogenetic visual characteristics, observable at the macro level of the human eye. They NEVER use sub-microscopic genetic markers.

To them, a cat and an elephant are of the "same kind" because they both have four legs. That is not at all scientific.

Whereas the scientific definition of "Evolution" is where a parent population yields two descendent populations which CANNOT BREED TOGETHER.

Because the antecedent generation, and the descendant bacterial generations "look" the same physical shape (under the microscope), the Creationist insists that both are "of the same kind".

The scientist proves that the two generations CANNOT interbreed, (where before they could) therefore the later generation is an "Evolved Species," and NOT AT ALL of the same kind.

The Creationists "lie" when they use false terminology having no credence in science, and claim something CANNOT be done, when evidence is tabled demonstrating that IT CAN BE DONE.

Ogg,
You demonstrate gross misunderstanding of the creationist position, and little willingness to listen or try to understand. 

When you're willing to speak with civility, drop me a line.

I stand by my comments made earlier. Have a good day.

Dan S

Here's a link which explains the science of evolution in very clear terms.

For example:

"Misconception:
"Evolution is a theory about the origin of life."

Response:
Evolutionary theory deals mainly with how life changed after its origin. Science does try to investigate how life started (e.g., whether or not it happened near a deep-sea vent, which organic molecules came first, etc.), but these considerations are not the central focus of evolutionary theory. Regardless of how life started, afterwards it branched and diversified, and most studies of evolution are focused on those processes. "

and

" Misconception:
"Evolution means that life changed 'by chance.'"

Response:
Chance is certainly a factor in evolution, but there are also non-random evolutionary mechanisms. Random mutation is the ultimate source of genetic variation, however natural selection, the process by which some variants survive and others do not, is not random.

For example, some aquatic animals are more likely to survive and reproduce if they can move quickly through water. Speed helps them to capture prey and escape danger. Animals such as sharks, tuna, dolphins and ichthyosaurs have evolved streamlined body shapes that allow them to swim fast. As they evolved, individuals with more streamlined bodies were more likely to survive and reproduce. Individuals that survive and reproduce better in their environment will have more offspring (displaying the same traits) in the next generation. That's non-random selection. To say that evolution happens "by chance" ignores half of the picture. "

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/misconceptions_faq.php

You appear doggedly determined NOT to understand, which primarily is an insult to your own intelligence. You can still be a Christian and understand science such as evolution. Without our understanding of genes, mutations, DNA and so on we would not have many of the medical and agricultural technologies that we rely on today.

You owe it to yourself to understand a broader view of life on earth.

I tend to believe you are more interested in winning a debate than you are in discovering truth.

Another link, this one to the doctrine of the Unitarian Church may be of interest to you:

http://www.all-souls.org/spirituality/beliefs.htm

Ex-Creationist challenges YECism:

http://rachelheldevans.com/ham-young-earth-creationism-camping-end-of-world

(MORE) PROOF OF EVOLUTION IN ACTION TODAY:

http://www.livescience.com/7745-swine-flu-evolution-action.html

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090121123041.htm

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/09/100901-science-animals-evolution-australia-lizard-skink-live-birth-eggs/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhikMcg81wE

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10574901/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/evolution-evidence-rated-top-breakthrough/

http://darwinaia.wordpress.com/2010/09/24/evolution-in-action-ceratopsians-and-the-paleontological-evidence-for-evolution/

http://www.mukto-mona.com/science/skybreak/evolution_part2.htm

http://darwin.britishcouncil.org/themes/evidence-for-evolution-now

http://www.insight-press.com/site/epage/47697_664.htm

http://www.hhmi.org/news/122305.html

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18172-gene-change-in-cannibals-reveals-evolution-in-action.html

http://www.actionbioscience.org/evolution/lenski.html

http://www.arn.org/blogs/index.php/literature/2008/10/09/cichlid_fish_another_textbook_example_of

http://atheism.about.com/od/evolutionexplained/What_is_Evolution_Evolution_Defined_and_Explained.htm

Title: D'oh! We should have known!
Category: Creationism
Posted on: May 22, 2011 7:14 AM,
by PZ Myers

The number one most common excuse I have been seeing for Harold Camping's failure, both before and after yesterday, is that he can't possibly forecast the time of the Rapture because Jesus said no one can know. You know what?

<That's the same stupid reliance on the authority> of the Bible that led to Camping's prophecy.

The average person needn't be too concerned.

This persistent lying, denying, weaseling, scamming, arrogance of the religiotards will only serve to obsolete them into the junk heap of history.

Where they truly belong !