Sunflower, when we got to the bit where my description of bin Laden was met by your response of “This does not characterize Osama bin Laden from what we know so far”, I bailed out.

If the basis for your position really is that bin Laden was not guilty of “inspiring atrocities against all creeds and all nations”. Then I’m afraid you are beyond help. Disappointing really as I had thought there was a glimmer of reality in there somewhere.

I don’t even feel like mocking you, I just feel a bit sad for you really.

Sunflower, I have this great relationship with my grandkids. When they are angry, frustrated or confused, I kneel beside them, head on their shoulder and I whisper in their ear. We love you very much; we understand why you feel as you do, we enjoy the time we share, so let’s think about what fun things we could do. The tension subsides, I lean back, hold hands and look then in the eye and say, what are we going to do next?

You are angry, frustrated, very confused and you need someone to do the same for you.

You cannot go through life carrying such levels of irrationality on you own.

Thanks for your persistence but this turned out to be a fizzer.

Greetings all. Well, that was interesting.
Sorry to see Spindoc bail just when it was getting constructive.
Sunflower, if you are still here, I think most of your observations are mainstream here in Europe, but you will probably not be surprised to hear they will be a threat and a bother to consumers of Fox News in the USA and Australia. (I presume you are in Australia.)
Regarding your comment that Spindoc’s “son of a wealthy Saudi family goes feral and stirs up hatred and inspires atrocities against all creeds, and all nations” does not characterise Osama bin Laden from what we know so far, what are your sources?
Cheers.

Hi Alan,
I have read just about everything I can find. The most useful recently has been Ahmed Hashim who teaches at an American military academy somewhere. He writes fairly prolifically so can be googled, I expect. You are right about Fox News. I don’t watch any TV and don’t even own one. Maybe that’s why I am out of step with many people here. Yes, I am Australian.
My view after reading everything I can find is that bin Laden is in the category of, say, Tony Blair or John Howard – a significant player in a process of evil decisions which cost several thousand innocent lives in pursuit of what was genuinely believed to be a just cause. The fact that Al Qaeda started out building hospitals is intriguing. So is his being funded by the Americans to fight the Soviets.
The reality most people miss is that he was actually quite scrupulous in limiting civilian casualties when attacking the military personnel in the Pentagon and the twin towers. They say 50,000 people worked in the World Trade Center, and another 140,000 visited daily. So how were fewer than 3000 killed? Careful timing, it seems.
I certainly agree that was still an evil act and deserves condemnation and the appropriate punishment. I have friends in New York and certainly understand their horror. But George W Bush's futile invasions in the Middle East have killed more than 7000 Americans along with more than 100,000 Muslim men, women and children in a relatively indiscriminate manner. My American friends are aware of this too, but strangely not so horrified. It is a wonderful world …
Cheers, Alan,
Stacy