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The Forum > Article Comments > Tunisia… Egypt… Libya… Let's look closer to home > Comments

Tunisia… Egypt… Libya… Let's look closer to home : Comments

By Daniel Scoullar, published 30/3/2011

We have state sponsored violence and political exclusion much closer to home than one might realise.

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"However, we have fought above our weight on many occasions, World Wars and on."

Indeed Australia are always eager to sacrifice money and lives of its young soldiers to serve and satisfy Britain and USA.

"Respectfully, you must realise that a person like Ms Gillard wouldn’t know the location of Indonesia, just somewhere north of Cape York, over the water, somehere. She does know other places like Israel though, loves the place and jumps through hoops for the Melbourne chapter."

Interesting, in your opinion why should Indonesia care much about what Ms Gillard know or don't know? With regards to Israel, does Israel know or care much about Oz in return?

"I don't know what figures your using but the IMF rankings have Australia as the 13th Largest Economy by GDP, 5 Five places higher than indonesia, Our economy is almost twice the size of indonesia's."

No wonder since prices in Oz is more than 4 times more expensive than in Indonesia. US$5 in Oz can buy you a can of Coke, in Indonesia US$5 can buy you breakfast, lunch, and dinner. For a more useful comparison of living standards, use the PPP GDP and GDP per capita. Hence, we can see that Indonesia is actually a couple of positions above Australia in terms of overall size of economy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)

WRT to GDP per capita, no wonder since Indonesia has 12 times the population of Australia. If Indonesia has such low purchasing power, why does Indonesia can grow by 6% pa based solely on domestic consumption? Why does Indonesians owned 60% of Singapore's residential property? Why does almost every major multinational company open branches in Indonesia to take advantage of our "domestic consumption"?
Posted by Proud to be Indonesian, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 10:00:23 PM
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Last time I bought a can of Coke, it cost me $1.40. Hyperbole is fine, except when trying to construct a statistical argument.
Posted by Otokonoko, Wednesday, 30 March 2011 10:23:18 PM
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NATO this week told the Rebels that they were not there to help them win.Then why are they there? Could the oil and gas have something to do with it?

There are reports that the USA are using depleted uranium shells like they used in Iraq/Kosovo,in Libya.How is this helping the people? Will they think better with two heads and an extra eye? Bush and Obama should be charged with war crimes.Using DU is against the Geneva Convention.
Posted by Arjay, Thursday, 31 March 2011 5:09:10 AM
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Daniel Scoullar is to be congratulated on a beautifully composed, sensitive and diplomatic article. We have to set aside the old baggage and the head-banging as to who's got a bigger wallet, and address the issue. I commiserate with "Proud to be Indonesian" regarding the oppression under Dutch colonialism, but have a heart dear "Indonesian" when evaluating the plight and human rights of the West Papuans. Surely you would recognise that this territory has no sovereign, ethnic or cultural relationship with the Indonesian archepelago, or to the Indonesian people like yourself, and can therefore only be considered as being under Indonesian occupation and colonial rule. And, don't try to convince us that it is not an oppressive rule, or try to condone torture on any basis. Your history proves that your government and judiciary dance to the tune of the military. We are not like that in Oz; we are not like Giddafi or Sadaam.
We need to be grown up now, bury the old baggage, and accept that we live in a different and more advanced world, and one trying to achieve a better life for all, and greater security for all - and oppression and inhumanity have to be abhorred wherever it is found. Sure, Australia has been afraid of Indonesia for decades, and why not? when we are 20 million and they are 240 million on your doorstep, and when the government is founded on the military.
Sure, the US is our major ally, and we need them, and they are not perfect and have done some bad deeds in their time. But, I think the US is trying to reform, but even they won't take China to task over Tibet, so many reforms take time. In the meantime, we should try to be better to one another, and a peaceful withdrawal from West Papua would show great fortitude, and could help Indonesia towards many important reforms for its people and its international reputation.
Posted by Saltpetre, Thursday, 31 March 2011 8:31:58 AM
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@Saltpetre:

"Surely you would recognise that this territory has no sovereign, ethnic or cultural relationship with the Indonesian archepelago, or to the Indonesian people like yourself"

Well, according to UN and entire world community this territory is fully under Indonesian sovereignty. With regards to culture, this territory has centuries of relationship with other parts of Indonesia, long before Dutch rule.

"And, don't try to convince us that it is not an oppressive rule, or try to condone torture on any basis."

LOL, we don't care what you think. We merely clarify the issue and provide background information to demolish the misinformation being spread around here.

"In the meantime, we should try to be better to one another, and a peaceful withdrawal from West Papua would show great fortitude, and could help Indonesia towards many important reforms for its people and its international reputation."

Hmm, so you think we should abandon our sovereign territory as fully acknowledged by international law, which make-up 20% of our land territory and inhabited by 3.5 million people, for the sole purpose of "making ourselves look better" in your eyes? LOL, I don't think so. I don't think any country will take such "advice" seriously.
Posted by Proud to be Indonesian, Thursday, 31 March 2011 11:08:37 AM
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Yes Tell us Arjay.

How exactly does not helping the rebels win, but preventing Gaddafi from doing so, assis the US facists in plundering Libyan OIL. Libyan oil production has effectively ceased. Or are you now going to pretend that the US is trying to drive up the price of oil and push their economy back to recession? And swipe Libyan oil in the process?
Posted by PaulL, Thursday, 31 March 2011 6:47:52 PM
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