rpg,

I am looking for fair dinkum debate and that must include impact of ocean algae vegetable matter linked to photosynthesis and warmth in turn linked to increased sewage nutrient pollution likely increasing proliferation of ocean algae.

There are solutions as the situation I understand indicates. I suggest those solutions involve development of new industry and business and employment reducing the nutrient load and regenerating the marine environment.

Stimulus for existing economies and not new tax is the way to go.

jf .. who would do this and where would the profits come from - you mention a new industry, doing what regenerating nutrients, which is nice - but can we get energy or food from the system?

if it is just extracting nutrients at no profit, then i can't see it getting off the ground .. is that what you are saying, that it should be down as a charitable industry

As I understand it, this debate went to the next level with a challenge to Ross Garnaut from Malcolm Roberts on March 22, 2011. It would appear that this was accompanied by “Legal Notice is hereby given” in relation to possible “contempt of parliament”

What I find truly astonishing is that I have found no mention of this in our media? We know they have it, why are they sitting on it?

Every statement we have heard in justification of the CO2 Tax is challenged in this document. For those who support AGW and the CO2 Tax, could we ask for your responses?

http://www.conscious.com.au/__documents/GarnautMarch2011.pdf

Challenge sent to Ross Garnaut, Registered Post (with Delivery Confirmation)

Copies to:

The Hon Greg Combet, MP, Minister for Climate Change
The Hon Tony Abbott, MP, Leader of the Opposition
The Hon Greg Hunt, MP, Opposition spokesman for Climate Action
The Hon Kim Carr, MP, Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research
The Hon Robert McClellan, MP, Attorney-General
Mr. Alex Chernov, University of Melbourne Chancellor
Professor Glyn Davis, University of Melbourne Vice-Chancellor

ABC Board
Mr. Maurice Newman, ABC Chairman
Mr. Mark Scott, ABC Managing Director Head of ABC Audience and Consumer Affairs

Electronically to:
Federal Members of Parliament
Professor David Karoly, University of Melbourne
Interested scientists, select journalists and interested citizens.

Spindoc,

the link (Amazon) at end of page 2 does not work. Indicates does not match any results on amazon site.

I would like to read summary of IPCC findings.

Do you, or anyone else, have another link to IPCC report.

spindoc that is a great letter.

The whole thing reminds me of the ancient Roman general Cincinattus. He was virtuously ploughing his field when he was called to command the Roman army to defend against an invasion. Having successfully led them to defeat it, he returned to ploughing his field.

The productive class work not only for themselves but for the coerced support of the entire political class. The latter have managed to fritter away billions on baseless climate alarmism and moral grandstanding. But it is far worse than that, for while the world faces food shortages, these shamans will literally kill millions of people if their wholesale global attacks on productive activity are not stopped. So, like Cincinnatus, the productive have to stop their works producing things people actually need, to beat off the alarums and attacks of the anti-civilisation re-distributionists. For if the warmists had their way, what aspect of life would not be regulated out of existence? They pubicly dream of a golden age in which billions just disappear off the face of the earth. We are already at the stage of enforced dim lighting in our homes. We have enforced nobbling of our wood-heater specifically so it doesn't work properly, as a sacrific to placate the sky-god - (we have to get up in the middle of the night to feed it - performing self-defeating rituals of humliation to our green overlords). Now they want to tax us for presuming to use the government's air! People's businesses and livelihoods are destroyed wholesale so the "let them eat cake" mob can amuse themselves with expensive energy toys that are laughably inadequate to human needs. I pass the wind farm near Canberra occasionally, and they remind me of Coleridge's words "as idle as a painted ship, upon a painted ocean". If only the greens would pay for any of their schemes voluntarily!

Jedimaster -

No the reference to wind power in Denmark was correct. The exact proportions are in various reports, but as I understand it they problem has gotten to the stage where they will be required to pay Norway and Sweden to take the power. Access to pumped storage systems (dams)is a common theme in arguements over wind energy - see some of the arguments they've had in Britain over that issue.

The reference in Wikipedia is typical of the activist bible - they acknowledge the problem but downplay it. Wikipedia cannot be used as an authorative reference in these matters, although you can follow the soruces it cites and use those.

Wind in China. You are quite right to say that nothing has said about the numbers of wind towers connected. In fact there is very little, reliable third party information about the issue. But the most likely answer is very few or none at all. As I pointed out in an earlier thread, to you or someone else, the generators in China are leaglly required to build wind towers, but the grids and distributors are not legally required to connect them or use the output, so why would they? Wind is hard enough to manage on far more developed western grids, where they have sophisticated arrangements for adjusting the overall power on the grid to suit wind (grids have to be continaully balanced for voltage and frequency). Connecting them to a Chinese grid is probably just asking for trouble.

In Australia, fortunately, the legal obligation is on the distributors, so the Australian Energy Market Operator (the manager of the Eastern Australian grid) can opt not to accept wind power if it will destabilise the network, which avoids a lot of problems. In Germany and Denmark the authorites must accept wind before all other forms of power which, again as I understand a few references, leads to some anxious moments for the grid operator ("white knuckle ride" was one comment).

As you can see, you shouldn't set me off about wind.