The Forum > Article Comments > A few brave men > Comments
A few brave men : Comments
By Warwick Marsh, published 11/3/2011It takes a brave person to stand-up to their party on any matter, even one of principle.
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Posted by MartinsS, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 7:12:03 AM
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Ah, the "God is love" defence, Martin S.
>>God loves everyone - dictators, Muslims, atheists, gays… no exceptions. There is no entry fee, no secret handshake, no special introduction required to be loved by God. As Christians we are to mimic Christ who Himself "only does what He sees the Father doing."<< The only problem with that approach is that the behaviours that accompany such fine words, so often deny them. As Hamlet opined... "But to my mind, though I am native here And to the manner born, it is a custom More honour'd in the breach than the observance" Hate, as has been pointed out here, takes many forms. While it is easy to say the words "of course I don't hate gays/Muslims/atheists", it is far more difficult to disguise actions that contradict this. By encouraging a wide range of discriminations - there are many clerics who still think that being gay is a lifestyle choice, for example - they demonstrate hatred extremely effectively. Yes, there are branches of (the very same) religion that embrace gays, and who can validly claim to be free of hatred for them: http://www.gaychristian.net/ "...homosexual behavior is appropriate within the confines of a committed, loving, monogamous, lifelong, Christ-centered relationship. Essentially, I'm arguing that a Christ-centered marriage is a good thing, regardless of the gender of the people involved" And there are those that don't: http://www.allaboutworldview.org/gay-christians.htm "The Bible consistently tells us that homosexual activity is a sin... specifically that those who fall into homosexuality do so as a result of denying and disobeying God. When a person continues in sin and disbelief, God "gives them over" to even more wicked and depraved sin in order to show them the futility and hopelessness of life apart from God... please don't be blinded by the lies of a clever enemy whose only goal is your destruction. Come to the Savior who gave His life to set you free from all sin." Now it may just be me, but that sounds like a threat. Who would wish eternal damnation on a group of people, if they loved them? Posted by Pericles, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 9:13:39 AM
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God loves gays ? I'm sure he tolerates them otherwise he would have designed humans differently. After all, didn't he make us in his own image ?
Posted by individual, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 10:07:52 AM
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Dear Pericles,
No one wishes eternal damnation on anyone. Following Christ is a personal decision. No one forces anyone to do anything. There are always consequences - perhaps this side of eternity (goal, disease, loneliness etc), but definitely on the other side. Everyone in effect chooses their own destiny. What could be fairer? But God’s love manifests in trying to help people realise their fateful decisions. To completely ignore them would be hateful. Being confronted with the (Biblical) truth is the first step in repentance. I don’t understand all the internal physiological processes in homosexuals, nor am I clear on why they are the way they are. So I am certainly not going to try & prove anything by social studies, genetics or ex-gay testimonies. What I do know is that we can't go around changing the Bible every time some section of the community says it is incompatible with their way of thinking. God does not change. He is not a fad. God transcends our culture, language, national sovereignties, even history. We bend to Him, not vice versa. I live with that (perhaps to you, unpalatable) central truth by remembering that only God knows everything and secondly, that God is love. He is fair, and will treat every bit of "evidence" on its merits and in accordance with His published Law (the Bible). I can only go on His revealed truth and try to be a "good servant". Servants don't question every decision from the Master. Yes, we have a brain and should use it, but not for insubordination. Soldiers rely entirely on their General’s orders and only improvise within that framework, not outside of it. So what is love? For an addict, they may need to experience "tough love" in order to finally break their addiction. Love doesn’t have to be soft & gooey, giving in to our every whim. In fact, tough love is evidence of TRUE love, wanting the best for the individual over and above our own needs. Making decisions that go against our inner desires IS hard, but NOTHING is impossible with God's help. Posted by MartinsS, Tuesday, 22 March 2011 10:33:52 AM
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Everyone in effect chooses their own destiny. What could be fairer?
MartinS, Excuse me please but statements like that are just too outlandish & idealistic & even more insulting. There are too many factors to list where people simply do not have a choice. Try & look at your surrounds without the rose-coloured glasses on & look at the many victims of greed & incompetent Government policy. let me tell you what could be fairer ! No goody-gooders & useless bureaucrats interfering with peoples' lives & let victims retaliate in a fashion to match the insult. Posted by individual, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 7:00:09 AM
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Choice in final destination is one thing we do have.
Choosing to be God of our own lives is a choice and has consequences for us and others around us. Most often it is short term gain for long term loss. We can bicker about the detail in a futile effort to ignore/delay the single most important choice of our lives. This Choice will then guide each of the following. We do not have an eternity to make this single most important choice but we will live with the consequences for eternity. Posted by Delilah, Thursday, 24 March 2011 5:29:06 PM
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Let me set the record "straight".
GOD IS LOVE. The Bible says it and millions of people experience it every day.
God loves everyone - dictators, Muslims, atheists, gays… no exceptions. There is no entry fee, no secret handshake, no special introduction required to be loved by God.
As Christians we are to mimic Christ who Himself "only does what He sees the Father doing." We are called to love unconditionally. That’s the highpoint of Christianity… a level we all fall short of unfortunately, but it is the goal nonetheless.
I have a 6yo son who is frequently selfish, intolerant, disobedient. A typical child.
I dislike his bad behaviour and poor choices, but I still love "him". I tell him his behaviour is not acceptable and mete out discipline as necessary. I also tell him I love him daily - with words and actions.
So if I "hate" his sinful behaviour, am I a hateful father? Do I hate children per se?
God "hates" it when we disobey Him, but He still loves us. Wouldn’t any real father want the best for his children?
Christians don’t agree with the gay lifestyle as being the "best choice" for a person, nor do we agree with many of the political policies being pursued so actively in the public arena by the Gay Lobby/Greens.
We strongly believe in the values that God has placed in our hearts and we will defend them vigorously.
But don’t you dare say that Christians hate gays. You have got it all wrong.