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The Forum > Article Comments > Flicking the bean on screen > Comments

Flicking the bean on screen : Comments

By Evelyn Tsitas, published 11/2/2011

Black Swan is Gothic to its core.

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It is a harrowing film--as I understand it, giving the audience a taste of psychosis.
Posted by ozbib, Saturday, 12 February 2011 4:26:10 PM
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Sorry to rain on the author's titillating homage to masturbation, blood and all things Gothic, but when a boss instructs a co-worker to go home and 'touch yourself' - as some creepy exercise in professional development - that's sexual harassment, folks.

In most developed countries, it's now grounds for dismissal and a litigous offence.

However, as the age-old patriarchal formula goes: women + progress = backlash + regress. Now, thanks to this latest effort from Backlash HQ (aka Hollywood), sexual harassment has been repackaged for a whole new generation of young girls (for whom ballet is almost a rite of passage) as a cool, glamorous means of harnessing one's creative genius.

And all brought to us by a creative team of 3 male writers, a male director and a male producer - and chock full of virtually every female-from-hell cliche to pour forth from the patriarchal psyche: frigid bulimic nutter descending into madness; control-freak neurotic mum; slutty corrupting rival; and embittered, discarded primadonna.

All this and a swag of Oscar nominations too.
Posted by Killarney, Sunday, 13 February 2011 8:44:03 AM
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Killarney
"However, as the age-old patriarchal formula goes: women + progress = backlash + regress."

I respect your comments and agree backlash is inevitable in any process of change particularly when one group believes they will be disadvantaged by a perceived threat to their standing/power etc.

However, one important factor is women + progress cannot really work without men + progress in arenas where men have been largely disadvantaged particularly in access to their children after divorce. Also men still wear the pressure of being the primary bread winner. there are still whole lot of conflicting factors that need ironing out.

Both these areas are changing and hopefully eventually it will end up in more flexible choices for men and women. Women generally have the advantage in some areas at the moment. There is still room for improvement for women as well in particular the sexualisation of women in the media and some old cultural attitudes about women that lead to sexual harrassment. There could be improvement in accessing opportunities in some of the more stubborn sectors (like the Church, Defence Forces).

I have not seen the movie but it is fiction. Fiction can and does reflect real life even the negative aspects. If anything the events you describe may highlight the need for appropriate sexual harassment legislation.

It is a movie. I would hate to see movies so sanitised and characters so 'robot like' that some 'real life' negative experiences could not be portrayed.
Posted by pelican, Sunday, 13 February 2011 12:25:08 PM
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Killarney,

My have we just stepped out of a gender studies lecture hall!

I never understand these kind of arguments like the ones you put forth. It seems to me feminists complain about no female parts, complain about the censoring of women's sexuality and then when it is attempted and depicted they complain about objectification, exploitation, cliche, the projected fear of the patriarchal male and on and on it goes like a wind up toy.

'all brought to us by a creative team of 3 male writers, a male director and a male producer'

The conclusion is that it's impossible for male writers to dare to approach what Sharon Stone would call 'challenging and diverse roles for women'. Only women can write women, and any attempt by men to place women in sexual scenes and themes is plainly motivated solely towards male gratification. Tosh!

I really want to see a female director and female writers and a female producer attempt to create a similar movie, while naturally giving justice/respect/sensitivity to women in a film with such themes and content. I am sure it would be sooo wonderfully different. Then again even if it wasn't there would be no uproar because it was women writing about women. It would be universally appreciated by the sisterhood as a sexually liberating tour de force no doubt!

Or is it just that the themes and content are unacceptable in themselves? That they could only possibly be conceived by the perverted evil male mind? That women like this they don't exist in real life or they ought not be discussed. I see a plethora of crazy men in films and plenty of depictions of perverted male characters, and I see no objections about that. Maybe women are just better people, and Anne of Green Gables is at the core of every woman.

PS: 'as some creepy exercise in professional development' The arts have different rules m'deer. These kind of explorations and whole-of-life imitate devotion to ones craft is enthusiastically promoted and pursued by true lovers of the arts, male and female! Philistine.
Posted by Houellebecq, Monday, 14 February 2011 4:52:05 PM
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I'm not a great fan of blood and gore, and may give this film a miss.

However, it is interesting the number of women who do go to films with lots of blood and gore, and also go to films with lots of violence.

Killarney,

"After getting blind drunk with several girlfriends, Kate stumbled into a sex shop in London's Soho where she reportedly demanded a different toy for each day of the week and bought seven mini vibrators.

"She started squirting strawberry-flavour lube all over the place and playing with a big black sex toy. She was hitting the side of her face with it. Then she put her mouth over it, simulating oral sex, and rubbed it up and down after smothering it with lube."

Kate then proceeded to sniff some poppers before passing out on the floor and then repeating the process after regaining consciousness."

http://www.perthnow.com.au/entertainment/model-kate-moss-causes-a-drunken-scene-in-a-london-sex-shop/story-e6frg30c-1226005816791

I guess this is all the fault of evil patriarchal male.
Posted by vanna, Monday, 14 February 2011 8:28:09 PM
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Ah ... OK. I'm somewhat new to OLO, so I'm still getting a handle on OLO-speak. From what I've read so far of the replies to my post about sexual harrassment and Hollywood ...

pelican translation:
It's not about sexual harrassment and Hollywood. It's about women having to be careful not to upset men or they won't listen to us. (So what else is new?) And, most relevant of all to discussions about Hollywood and cinema, some men don't see their kids enough after divorce (huh??).

houllebecq translation:
It's not about sexual harrassment and Hollywood. It's all about Houllebecq and his/her devastatingly witty ability to trivialise, patronise and dismiss all feminist arguments made by all feminists everywhere.

vanna translation:
It's not about sexual harrassment and Hollywood. It's about some celebrity model who got drunk and went to a sex shop.

My translation:
Feminists do not belong on OLO. Got it? (Yeah ... I get it.) So if I wish to stay around, I had better get used to having my arguments sidelined in favour of lots of personal sarcasm, abuse and reprimands for being unsuitable for male sensitivities.

On that basis, I doubt very much that I'll be sticking around. So I'll get out of your way and let you take back your 'feminist free' space.

And BTW if this is the 'free speech' that OLO has taken its public stance on, then I'd say it's been a wasted effort.
Posted by Killarney, Tuesday, 15 February 2011 8:32:41 AM
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Killarney I am no supporter of vanna's view of the world (as he will tell you) and it nothing to do with upsetting men's sensibilities - that is just childish if you don't mind me saying.

What makes you think that an all women production team would not have done similar. Many all women production teams have highlighted the maltreatment of women in various circumstances to make a feminist point including scenes such as described in the article above. Why is it different if a male production team highlights same?

I am quite over the one-sided feminist and masculinist nonsense that comes out on this site, blaming and shaming with little self reflection. I tend to make no friends in both camps because some of them tend to be too self-obsessed although I am one of a minority that tends to agree with much of what MTR posts in relation to sexualisation of women and children. So please don't downplay my contributions as appeasing men.

The situation for men accessing children after divorce has improved with changes to the Family Law Act but for a long time it was a very one-sided negotiation. How would you feel as a mother with only an every second weekend access and then having to gain permission for every visit outside this arrangement. Fair's fair. You can't have a 'revolution' if the winners take all, you just create another underclass.
Posted by pelican, Tuesday, 15 February 2011 8:52:27 AM
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I like you Killarney,

You related to pynchme at all?

'every female-from-hell cliche to pour forth from the patriarchal psyche: frigid bulimic nutter descending into madness; control-freak neurotic mum; slutty corrupting rival; and embittered, discarded primadonna.'

I just don't see it. I mean I see the cliché, but I don't see it as a broad ranging attack on women via cliché from a patriachical-fear perspective.

I'd like to see you try making a film without cliché. Especially in Hollywood. Ever seen The Player? Even those oh so delightful European films are flooded with cliché. Even the wonderful Betty Blue. Oh no I shouldn't mention films with a psycho woman in them it might evoke another gender studies lecture.

I'm sure you rather enjoy your Under the Tuscan Sun, Unfaithful, or Eat Pray Love clichés better where the dissatisfied wife leaves her patriarchal husband (Good little provider that he was.. even leaving the kids too if I remember) and explore their unique femininity by travelling the world to shag those wonderfully exotic European lovers with their adorable dark eyes and accents (Who aren't really macho culture misogynists of course).

Me, I like the comfort of the CSI predator pervert of the week. SVU is especially good. I also like the man from hell clichés like the narcissistic wall street trader, the stoic emotionally distant dad, the failed footballer jock who drinks too much and beats his wife, the sex obsessed frat boy and the wonderfully camp, bitchy but loyal gay friend to the fag hag.

All in all this movie has woman leads and all the significant characters are women, and the human frailties (which are what films are about, nice people are boring didn't you know) and themes are much more intricate than your average rom-com. What's not to like? What movies would you set up as an example? Thelma and Louise? Beaches? Bad boy Bubbie?

Geez feminists are hard to please.

PS: Did you see Natalie Portman get her kit off? whoar! Nudge nudge wink wink, say no more! She's so... nubile. Ha ha ha ha ha
Posted by Houellebecq, Tuesday, 15 February 2011 9:27:31 AM
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Now, now Kilarney

Don’t be like that. Don’t be a feminist.

I don’t intend seeing the film, and after considering descriptions of the film by a number of people, it does seem that the film has gratuitous blood and violence.

So far as “women’s movies”, here is a verified list of movies that women like, because very large numbers of women have voluntarily gone to see these movies.

Interestingly, most of these movies have no sex in them, but most of these movies are violent to very violent, with people being shot at, blown up, hacked to death or dieing in a violent way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_films
Posted by vanna, Tuesday, 15 February 2011 4:53:16 PM
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BeanZ
MeanZ
SceneZ

Rusty.
Posted by Rusty Catheter, Tuesday, 15 February 2011 5:44:27 PM
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