[Deleted. Responding to flame above and flaming in return.]

[Deleted. Part of sub-thread deleted above.]

Ask yourself. Do you really want the weather to be colder, as in all year round? It’s not cold enough for you? If the crisis was real after 24 years of warnings, we would be talking about it, not debating it’s existence. And besides, world emissions have dropped but CO2 levels still rise. What kind of a mean spirited human being would wish this on their kids anyways? And how is letting the scientists out number the protesters supposed to show commitment. This about unstoppable warming you know. SAVE THE PLANET is the cry of the tyrant and it is dragging environmentalism and progressivism down with it. I can’t keep doing this CO2 needless panic so count me out. Real Christians don't condemn their kids to death by CO2.

I have suspended a couple of posters for diverting the thread to Christianity and flaming each other in the process. Another just escaped suspension as his post was mostly not about picking a fight with Christians, although the last two pars were, and from what I can glean doing a Google search the first half of his last para is wrong http://www.arrcc.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=181:speaking-for-australian-christian-lobby-climate-change-good-stewardship-required&catid=40:christian-resources&Itemid=11.

For some reason climate change brings out a lot of belligerence. And other agendas. Please stick to the topic and be civil to each other.

Hi Michael

You are right. "It is not just a matter of looking at bits of evidence here ans there and choosing what looks convenient to our beliefs." But then, cherry-picking is just what you do. You would "definitely start to doubt the science if the last seventeen years in a row were coller than the long term average in my old home state of South Australia."

Leaving aside the dubious quality of all "adjusted" measurements of average annual global mean temperatures, if you were in the UK (or EU) right now and experiencing the coldest December in 300 years, presumably you would reach the opposite conclusion?

Or would you do what some folk just did over at Germany's Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research and conjure up hitherto unreported (and unfalsifiable) "complex teleconnections in the climate system" to explain it away? - “Recent severe winters like last year’s or the one of 2005-06 do not conflict with the global warming picture, but rather supplement it.” [In Warmerland, even if it's snowing, it's still warming - and black is white, love is hate, sweet is sour, and science is stupidity.]

Michael, there are NO established laws of climate change. Despite the (increasingly desperate?) ex cathedra claims of many, this is a (rarely discussed) fact. It is irreducibly complex. And without laws, there can be no genuine predictive power, just guesstimates masquerading as "the-science-is-settled certainty". The truth is our political class, bless it, will never be able to control the Earth's elusive thermostat, even if we knew where to find it.

You also seem unaware of another fact - evidence of warming tells us nothing about what caused it - and this debate is all about CAUSATION. That's why we need a Royal Commission to expose publicly all the HUGE UNCERTAINTIES that have been deliberately hidden for far too long. Climategate was just the beginning. How many more UNPREDICTED EVENTS will it take before our institutions and governments wake up to climate science's darkest secrets?

Alice (in Warmerland)

Spindoc,
First of all I don’t think that Jones admitting data problems on temperatures in China is representative of the global situation or of the findings of the entire scientific community.

Secondly, on Climategate - I’d like to see some leaked emails between many prominent skeptics and their corporate sponsors.

Thirdly, I’m not trying to “prevent” any action or “create excuses” – just trying to understand why some people are in such utter denial over something that is potentially so important that they would grasp at anything and everything to disprove it.

It’s like the so-called debate between Evolutionists and Creationists. If it’s not one thing it must therefore automatically be the other.

Finally, what facts have I invented and who have I denigrated?

If you fall into one of the categories I listed, why not just stand up and admit it with pride?