Rhian, lovely post, which highlights the existential abyss in which (for mine) lies Gothesca’s proposed ‘atheist or non religious carols by candlelight’.

But Rhian, there IS only one true religion, as recounted on Southpark:

Satan [addressing a large crowd of new arrivals to hell] "Sorry everyone, it was the Mormons".

You raise an interesting point, talisman.

>> She tells us that she changed the name of the event "to protect the guilty" and that her Council had handed the formerly secular event "to the first church prepared to sponsor it in return for proselytising privileges."<<

That all sounds pretty lame to me. Why on earth would she need to change the name of the event, unless it was to hide the fact that she was a) exaggerating, b) inventing the parts that suited her "argument", or c) making the whole thing up?

There's nothing particularly libellous in what she tells of the event - unless, of course, it didn't happen that way at all. In which case, there is every reason for the lack of specificity.

I'd put my money on a combination of exaggeration and embellishment, with the odd blatant invention thrown in for "colour".

It certainly reeks of bad faith, that's for sure.

And you know perfectly well, Boaz, that this never happened.

>>In writing, he was coming from a position of personal transformation which resulted from an encounter with the risen Lord Jesus<<

Paul never "encountered" Jesus. They never met. Why do you feel it necessary to pretend otherwise?

@ Cornflower, perhaps if you didn't write
in riddles I'd have more chance in getting
what you mean. Yes, I looked up that same
Wikipedia entry for "Aunt Sally" and assumed
that you meant that the article's author had
created a fictitious object to "knock down".

If you meant my local Carols by Candlelight,
those details came from the flyer left in my
letterbox this week, same as every year.
In any case, I didn't "knock them down".
I thought I made it clear that I support the
local Christians and others in having their
informal Carols and sausage sizzle, even though
it's not my cup of tea.

As for the rest, I've got no idea what you're
talking about. Maybe you could communicate more
clearly, or just stick to the topic?

"Whatever our petty Western woes, etc

This part appears patronizing & short sighted to a majority of people who live in the western part of society. I am not discounting other parts of the world a large majority of people are living in poverty in the USA, UK, Australia. Maybe the author could explain what they mean by this statement. I do disagree there are many people who live in a western country & their woes are not petty. In fact there are many who are isolated, suffering a mental illness, unemployment, poverty.

"So, yes, I’m an atheist and, this year I’ll be celebrating Christmas with my family. etc What better reason to celebrate the season?"

I understand that you are a atheist. However as a atheist who is aware of the world around I am well aware of the sadness that affects many at this time of year. I remember this throughout the year the people who are not in a good place for what ever reason. I care for people greatly be them individuals or groups of people. I do not put myself in a class or will even refer to myself as being a member of a class this feels quite elitist. I feel your paragraph is condescending. There are many religions who respond in a similar manner and refer to people as "the poor people who we must all feel sorry for and help as they are less fortunate than most of us". Maybe all people not just a religious person or a non religious person it would be good to remember that; Things happen for various reasons to people.The words that you have chosen appear to be dismissive of people in a western country. We may not be suffering a current war in our country however we have poor, people who are in detention, the Australian aboriginals to name some. There are people who have been affected by the GFC in some parts of Australia they have lost their homes,jobs & families

@Pericles The events all happened as described.

I suspect the level of religiosity in the Carols *wasn't* Council sanctioned and they didn't realize exactly how much religion would be injected into the event. I also suspect I wasn't the only one put out by it because the sponsorship wasn't renewed.

I made it very clear in my article that even *I* admitted my initial reaction was a bit harsh - something my critics have conveniently ignored. I have no intention of publishing either the name of the town or of the church involved - both to protect my privacy and theirs.

I honestly can't understand the vitriol expressed by people in this discussion. I explained, honestly and directly, at my own expense, my over-reaction to a particular event. I readily admitted that it took me just 'two beats' to realise my response was unreasonable.

I have not called on anyone to give up their religious Christmas. I have asked only that *my* choice to celebrate a secular Christmas be respected.

Neither have I asked that Carols not be sung at Carols by Candlelight - of course that would be ridiculous! Vision Australia's Carols, for instance, strikes a very good balance of secular celebration and religious observance. This went far beyond that.

If the Carols I attended had been held on church property, of course, my reaction would have been even more unwarranted. But, it was in a council park.

I expect this explanation will have little impact upon those who've chosen to read far more than I intended into this article. I have been accused of saying things I clearly didn't say, and my critics have studiously ignored things I did say. What matters is the opinions of my friends and family – not people on the internet who hide behind aliases as they make their attacks. I have a particular aversion to lying - I don't lie and I do not tolerate it in others. This is my story - and, because it's true, I have to stick to it.

I wish you a merry Christmas.

This is a public forum and you have put your article out there. People are not kind and people will accuse others of lying if they do not understand the things behind it. I do not see that you have lied in your explanation of events, this makes no sense why someone would suggest this and maybe it is best to ignore this and not let it get you down.

I am sure you are aware there are many trolls and or people who try to rile up others. However you have the opportunity to discuss your views not to convince but so many can understand. Atheist are a diverse community and really you should be commended on having your personal experiences out there in such a public forum.

This can be an opportunity to refine your words or take on some constructive criticism if need be or just help with others understanding. This can be a emotional task on anyone. Please do not be disheartened and keep up your writing and contributing. I like a lively debate, I like people to go away and come back and get their arguments to hold up or extrapolate them. This is not to be offensive this just helps build up my skills.

I myself like to see what the person actually means or does not mean in a article. Everyone is different as you are well aware.