"Happy"

Repeating something doesn't make it any more true.

Much of what we hear about child abuse implies that fathers are the main risk to kids. Fathers groups point out that mothers are responsible for about half, merely to defend themselves from an unfair accusation. Claiming that father's groups claim that all abuse is done by mothers is dishonest.

Mother's groups are using untrue claims about child abuse to overturn recent changes that they dislike, mainly for financial reasons. Father's groups, on the other hand, are-not misusing concern over children's safety to promote their own interests. They are merely defending themselves from unfair attacks.

Vanna and Benk,
My question remains the same.
Do you intend to keep repeating the same line that ALL fathers in the FC are innocent victims of women who are ALL lying?
What is “feminist propaganda” if not wholesale vilification for women (AND plenty of men too) that want to point out the errors in your arguments?
It seems to me that you both want to use a broad brushstroke to paint ALL fathers in the FC and ALL mothers in the FC as representing ALL separated mothers and fathers.
This wholesale approach does not work in the FC.
Only 6% of ALL divorcing couples file in the FC. Of those, about 3% are children’s matters. These cases are mainly to do with child abuse that is real, serious and severe, NOT cases of mothers using child abuse allegations for financial reasons.
If you want to use the argument that “mothers” (are these ALL mothers?) use child abuse allegations for financial reasons you can’t. It is well established empirically that post separation mothers are far poorer than post separation fathers, with or without raising allegations.
The empirical findings are that fathers are THE most likely to raise false allegations of neglect, mothers and children are more likely to be truthful re allegations, and allegations in the FC of child abuse are NOT rampant.
You cannot overcome these empricial findings, and will want to do so only if you wish skew the situation in favour of the accused, who always say- It wasn’t me! I wasn’t violent! It’s her fault! She’s lying!
Again, are they all innocent, are women in the FC all liars? In a court mainly dealing with real, serious and severe cases of child abuse?
I think not.

Happy,
It was pointed out elsewhere that the waiting period for the FC is about 2 years.

The costs can also be very high, and solicitors can charge up to $500 to write and send a letter.

A father can easily get 80:20 because that is the norm, so most fathers accept that because they cannot afford anything else.

Are fathers happy about it.

About 70% are not, according to the largest study undertaken to date.

http://192.135.208.240/conferences/aifs8/parkinson.pdf

Your insistence that most fathers are happy souls seeing their children every second weekend or less is not accurate.

Have a read of the report, but I believe you know the statistics anyway.

I also hear very little from feminists about the need to repair marriages.

How odd.

I'm begining to think that feminists don't like the idea of marriage, and don't like the idea that a father is a parent to the children.

Trish, "Do you intend to keep repeating the same line that ALL fathers in the FC are innocent victims of women who are ALL lying?"

I'd be interested to see one instance where any of us have made that claim. Please note the emphasized ALL's in your claim which you had in your post.

Looks like yet another blatant misrepresentation to me.

Most of us recognize that there are good and bad men and women, neither gender has a monopoly on honesty or dishonesty.

What we don't want is a situation where the accused is treated as guilty and no safeguards in place. If accusations are not substantiated then those accusations should not be allowed to have any long term impact on the outcomes. We want a situation where men dealing with the family courts are being treated fairly, not shuffled through an endless stream of activists doing their bit to help women or determined to uphold traditional family roles. We want some recognition that the family circumstances leading up to separation are not generally the way people wish to live nor are they always the free choice of the individuals involved.

The campaign to bring in these changes is marked by outright lies, misrepresentation and hints of what's not true. It's marked by omission and what's not talked about.

Now why was it that men should not be concerned about the agenda's behind it all?

R0bert

Vanna,
What has a 2-year waiting period have to do with my question? - Do you intend to keep repeating the same line that ALL fathers in the FC are innocent victims of women who are ALL lying?
Your comment that re waiting periods in FC merely underlines what I have said-
After the reforms contact with a parent accused of violence increased at the interim level - that means that no real investigation into the validity of the allegations were done and children were ordered to contact with an abusive parent by default. There have been some child deaths by parents under court orders as a result of this. Do not go off on a tangent now talking about child deaths in the general population- stick to the point. These deaths have happened after these children were in the FC.
At no time did I ever say or insist that “most fathers are happy souls seeing their children every second weekend or less ...” and I do not appreciate or accept words being put in my mouth.
There are many feminists- male and female that like being married and are married. Most feminists- male and female, do not like abusive partners. I, a feminist, like men- I do not like abusive men’s behaviour- noir do I like abusive women’s behaviours. Therefore, don’t accuse me of being “anti-men.” I am not! How about ceasing violence against women?
You are again denigrating feminists wholesale.
What about abusive men? Do you deny they exist? Do you honestly claim that the ABS got it wrong when it was established that the number one reason women leave their marriages/partners in Au is because of domestic violence?

Happy,

I’ve heard the “but I like men” stuff many times from feminists.

I remember reading it on another website (NewMatilda) written by an academic feminist after being questioned by someone. Then recently on OLO, the same academic feminist accused every man of being a potential rapist.

Not much trust there.

If the ABS believes DV is the number 1 cause of divorce, then it is the opposite to what has been found by Relationships Australia.

“The three main internal issues were: communication, commitment and expectations. Key external influences identified as contributing to relationship breakdowns were financial stress and work pressures.”

http://www.relationships.com.au/resources/pdfs/reports-submissions/ra-rel-ind-2008-exec-summary.pdf

But DV now includes the following

“Emotional and verbal abuse such as humiliation, threats, insults, swearing, harassment or constant criticism and put downs “

I would think 100% of married men have experienced that from their wives.

I personally don’t know of any man that hasn’t, so I think there is no exaggeration in saying 100% of married men have experienced domestic violence from the wives.

If it is true that women leave men because of DV, then best to eliminate no fault divorce.

Take the man to court and prove the allegation, but the woman should be prepared to have her behavior investigated also, particulary any emotional or verbal abuse.