No socratease, Respect means just that. It is a bit concerning that you can interpret Respect to mean money - rather odd really. Please let me know the dictionary you are using so I can avoid it.

It is also a little sexist to insist that it is all about the 'white man'. Life is not centred around the 'white man'.

The views you express are not based on reality and only serve to illustrate your rather sad and blinkered view of the world.

With all these wonderous things you say the 'white man' makes, sells and pays taxes on, why are the social and health statistics for Indigenous Australians still in a world embarrasing state. Perhaps attitudes such as yours and some others on this thread are the pernicious cause of such disparity.

I know of dozens of Indigenous people who would love nothing more than to engage in productive discussion here on OLO, and not just on Indigenous issues and affairs. Many would also like to publish their own articles here for others to read and comment on. One need only read through the comments here to understand why they would not bother.

rainer .. so we should do what?

Not express opinions because there are some delicate petals in the country who might be offended?

Do they feel victimised? (is that training that does that?)

You underline the points made, that aboriginals expect a leg up they expect "special treatment" because they are aboriginals not because they are just people.

Is there anything they can do without having dancing girls sweep before them? Without having the area cleared of any comments that might question or disturb their harmony, Sarcastic yes, but what do you expect? If they cannot stand up for themselves in any other way but to be mollycoddled, then you are saying they cannot stand on their own two feet without a support mechanism .. yet some people say they "ruled the land" had "nations", what a load of bollocks.

It's a crutch, and thank you for enhancing the point well done

It should not matter one way or another what comments are made .. if they truly feel Australian. Clearly though, like you they prefer to have a chasm between themselves and ordinary Australians. They like to be propped up and have that whole victim thing going. I note aka made similar comments in another post.

So clearly you need to have censorship for our indiginous countrymen and women to feel appreciated and encouraged, what a farce.

It's a bit hard to respect that attitude isn't it?

By the end of this year, there will be around twenty six and a half thousand Indigenous university graduates - overwhelmingly, they will be working in the mainstream, especially any new graduates. Between them, they would be earning around one and a half to two billion dollars each year in salaries. Each year, another fifteen or sixteen hundred Indigenous people graduate from universities, about a quarter at post-graduate level. These people have put in the hard yards, to gain a solid educational foundation, and to be able to contribute far more effectively to Australian society.

By 2020, those numbers could be doubled. By 2035, they could be doubled again. From now on, about half of all young Indigenous people will go on to tertiary study, and most of those will graduate.

So yes, there are many Indigenous people who deserve respect, above and beyond what any human being is entitled to. They have seized the opportunities that are available in plenty, and done something with them. They certainly have my respect and admiration, because after all they will be the dominant Indigenous force in the future, the leaders of tomorrow.

But what will happen to the sit-down, hand-out Blackfellows ? I have no idea and not really much interest either. People choose their own pathways, to a large extent. Graduates have chosen theirs, welfare-Blackfellows have chosen theirs. Who have put effort into their lives, and who haven't ? That's where respect lies.

Joe

rpg, Stop playing the victim card, no one is asking for censurship. You stated that Rainier underlined "the points made, that aboriginals expect a leg up they expect "special treatment" because they are aboriginals" but I could not find it. Perhaps you have misread Rainier's post.

Rainier just pointed out that the Indigenous people who might consider submitting an article could not be bothered when the forum is overrun by people whose mind is closed by their prejudices and paranoia. It sort of lessens the image OLO has of being an intellectual forum.

rpg, you are funny - thinking that you can determine what it means to feel "truly feel Australian" and lumping all Indigenous Australians into one stereotype. It is like me saying that ALL non-Indigenous Australians are racist, when it simply is not true.

Loudmouth, I know of many "sit-down, hand-out" whitefellas. Some of them are getting a wage too - few pollies and public servants spring to mind.

A person's worthiness of respect is not the achievement of Western education. A person can have degrees and even a PhD but it is not their sole worth, or even the sole marker of intellect. One of the smartest people I knew was totally illiterate, another person who I was in awe of their intellect and humanity had a degree and was a tax auditor. These two people were close friends - their friendship was based on Respect. The first lived to be an Aboriginal Elder, the other was a well respected Elder white man. I know/knew a few people, black and white, of high intellect and great humanity who were/are alcoholics.

I also know people of significant intellegence and compassion who are not and have never been in any employment except maybe for mundane or casual employment.

I do like your numbers though Joe, particularly as excellence at Western education does not mean that an Indigenous person becomes aligned to mainstream Australia

Aka,

"Loudmouth, I know of many "sit-down, hand-out" whitefellas. Some of them are getting a wage too - [a] few pollies and public servants spring to mind."

And should we lift a finger for these loafers ? I don't think so.

Aka, my dear, we have to get away from this 'tu quoque - you too' game: I've argued with people who play it all of my life: one raises a criticism of (a), someone else points out a similar act of corruption/incompetence/bastardry on the part of (b), as if that answers that. Well, it does, in the sense that if you shouldn't dedicate yourself to (b), then why the hell should you dedicate yourself to (a) either, if both are equally corrupt/incompetent/a pack of b@stards ? A pox on both of them.

Corruption is corruption, whoever and wherever, and no alternative example can mitigate it - Black or White, we should not support corruption. Or incompetence. Or bastardry.

Yes, I agree with you about respect - but my point was that people deserve respect according to the amount of effort they put into their lives - I don't care if they work hard to become expert emu-carvers, or world peace resolvers, or ant-counters, as long as they make an effort, as long as they TRY - but conversely, I have not the slightest feeling for people who don't, who live off others, (Black OR white), who drain the efforts of others. Christ almighty, there are so many of those ! A pox on these people, too. The pity is that so many of them are 'leaders' (Black AND white).

And I think you know just what I mean ;)

Joe