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The Forum > Article Comments > We must fund learning and not killing in the Muslim world > Comments

We must fund learning and not killing in the Muslim world : Comments

By Brian Holden, published 18/10/2010

The US went into Afghanistan with guns, not to rescue the oppressed people from Islamic extremists, but as a reaction to the attack of 9-11.

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ALGOREisRICH

Huh?

I didn't even know there were missionaries in PNG and I certainly haven't made any comments about them.

Have you gone off your meds again?
Posted by lentaubman, Tuesday, 19 October 2010 1:49:02 PM
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I agree lentaubman;

Modernization and assistance in another country (one that might not be too happy with us) only achieves anything positive when the people there are already secular/modern-thinking enough to accept it.

Some theocratical places that follow Shariah enthusiastically would not only reject these things but will treat it as a hostile act by us to deviate people from their religion, or demand an equal cultural exchange of their regressive belief system for our medicine, culture and technology we offer them.

By staying away from them we achieve relations with them that are much more comfortable for both sides and less likely to end in tears.

My policy- no bombs, no books- if they would ever want our help, they can ask for it first.
Posted by King Hazza, Tuesday, 19 October 2010 1:53:55 PM
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King Hazza wrote:

>>if they would ever want our help, they can ask for it first.>>

That's about the sanest comment I've seen on this thread.

And I'll go a step further. They should have to pay something for any help we supply even if it's only 50 cents in the dollar. That way we'll know they really want our help.

However I'm excepting disaster relief from this. Obviously if there's a flood, a tsunami or an earthquake we all rush help to the scene.
Posted by lentaubman, Tuesday, 19 October 2010 2:19:44 PM
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Thanks vanna,

<<Where does al-Qaida get its arms supplies?>> Wouldn't have a clue, but I wouldn't be surprised if they get their arms from every arms selling country, directly and/or indirectly.

You're right, education by itself doesn't stop wars. But in this case, anything that weakens the vile pre-medieval patriarchy in Afghan culture should be welcome. Not all cultural practices are equal, King Hazza, not racist practices, slavery (for men or women) is not equivalent to freedom, equal human rights are not equivalent to their opposites, women's rights are incompatible with Shari'a law, with the Koran, and with tribal law. And education will give women options, even basic education, not just training as teachers and doctors and architects.

And no, educating women will not stop wars. Some educated women go along with wars. Yes, yes, yes. But all things being equal, and in situations where education means hope, the opportunity for choice and for the expression of humanity, I'd give it a go. As long as it loosens the bonds of patriarchy and medieval culture, it's fine by me, chauvinist that I am. Preservation of culture ? Couldn't give a toss.

Frankly, what I expect to see in the next ten years, if the Coalition stays in Afghanistan, is a very divided society, with the men way-back, and the women racing ahead. In other words, if the men don't want to join the world, let's not stop the women from wanting to do so. After all, we are talking about a society whose maxim about women is: "The only place for a woman is either in the home or in thegrave." This is a society which has been at war with its women, who are little more than the breeding chambers for the next generation of boys. Such a society does not deserve to endure, as a society. Put that in your bong and smoke it.

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Tuesday, 19 October 2010 2:57:35 PM
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AIS my point about PNG is that the same hand wringing "we have to do something" for the natives/primitives/villagers everywhere has differing outcomes -often the motivation is more for those delivering the educating, than looking at what the receivers need most, if they need it at all and if they can use such an education.

it's incredibly arrogant to go into primitive societies with the view that anything you can teach them is of benefit, it might be to you, but not to them always.

I know first hand the result of the christian mission in PNG .. you might know of the missionaries, but have you seen the social results of their work. Not just hear how wonderful the work is from the missionaries .. go look at the big towns full of kids who wanted a better life and get nothing, as the villages empty and there will not be another generation of villagers. Who is that good for? the missionaries all pat each other on the back, another year of graduates .. with nowhere to go and no way to use their education.

This article is more of the same. Assuming that wanting to help primitive peoples alone is a good reason to do it.

Why not just leave them alone .. and if they ask for help, fine, otherwise you have no idea what a social disturbance you are causing, what effects it will have in 20 years when all the educated kids leave to follow their dreams, flock to the cities and clog it up with dreamers.

It's not bashing missionaries, it's asking if the social arrogance of the west is really needed, yes they may be primitive .. and happy that way.
Posted by Amicus, Tuesday, 19 October 2010 3:19:09 PM
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Joe Loudmouth,
No, education does not stop wars. Nor does it stop terrorism.

By various accounts, about 60% of Al Qaeda have tertiary education, and of course their leader (if still alive) has or had a degree in civil enginerring.

This article gives some actual figures of Muslim terrorists:-

“he found that 17.6 per cent were upper class, 54.9 per cent middle class, and 27.5 per cent lower class.

16.7 per cent were educated to a level less than high school; 12.1 per cent had at least a high school education; 28.8 per cent had some college education; 33.3 per cent had a college degree; and nine per cent had a postgraduate degree.

Of 265 of his subjects, only 9.4 per cent had a religious education, and 90.6 per cent had a secular education.”

http://www.spiked-online.com/articles/0000000CA5E4.htm

On the other side, Hilary Clinton has a law degree from Yale, George Bush has a MBA from Harvard, Condoleezza Rice is currently a professor at Stanford, and the charming bundle of fun Donald Rumsfield has been awarded eleven honorary degrees.

So education does not stop wars.

I would think that it must be known where the terrorists are procuring their weaponry, because plenty of terrorists have been captured.

But where or how they are procuring their weaponary has not actually been told to the public.
Posted by vanna, Tuesday, 19 October 2010 3:47:02 PM
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