People who face death in was or any other military engagement should have aright to be assessed and tried where and when necessary by a court or tribunal from the`ir own brethren in arms. If they are willing to offer us their lives to defend us and our interests th3en who are we to decide their fate in and under conditions that we can never properly understand or appreciate.
Ir seems to me that we want to enjoy a protection that we in turn are unwilling to accord them, we have the temerity to want to hold their lives in our hands. Those who want to aply the normal rules of so-called natural law should be prepared to enter the same environment and under the same conditions, shoulder to shoulder with our men, to sit in judgement.

I guarantee that this self-righteous and more han pious lot of hypocrites, usually self-seeking lawyers and those of questionable equivalent but just as vociferous,from the safety that our soldiers provide, these doe-eyed, limp wristed protectors are passionate about the human rights of those who want to kill us more than fight for the rights of the front-line rights of those who only want to protect us.
These brave men and women seem to have the right to die or endure capture not for their protection but our protection. What a lot of hypocrites the human rights industry are.

socratease

" If they are willing to offer us their lives to defend us and our interests ..."

In case you haven't noticed, they aren't defending us, they are attacking and provoking a country and a people on the other side of the world who never attacked nor offered to attack us, killing babies, children, teenagers, dogs, goats, goatherds, and blowing up bridal parties, and who are getting paid to do it.

The idea that they should be immune to do this, or should be tried by their 'brethren in arms' who can be expected to be partial is nothing but the old idea of rights of conquest which should have no place in the modern world.

If your love of the Australian state leads you to support the idea of Australian troops shooting babies and children and being immune from question or impartial discipline, you should review your love of the Australian state.

More to the point, we should be demanding immediate withdrawal of all Australian troops from this disgraceful, illegal and utterly vain war.

If these soldiers did nothing wrong, as they assert, then they have nothing to fear from the court as they will be found innocent. Surely a better outcome than ongoing suspicion and subsequent damage to their reputations.
There is a question that needs to be answered and if it is not, then we can only presume cover up and crimes against innocent civilians.

I am glad Australia does not tolerate any illegal behavior by our troops given the self inflicted mess of torture and mistreatment the seppoes stand accused of. No one says Australian troops are gunhappy morons out on a turkey shoot. Our soldiers are well respected as professionals and this court case shows that we value life and try as hard as possible to prevent any unnecessary deaths.
We should be proud that we have proper rules of engagement and are prepared to enforce them.

Peter Hume I share your position entirely. Australia should not be in Afghanistan helping America to further its blatant, bloody imperialism and to hear successions of our politicans trying to justify our involvement there is sickening!

Bring on the debate on Afghanistan, I say and subject all our troops to continual rigorous scrutiny. We know from the war crimes committed by Americans just what having unbridled power does to soldiers.

http://www.dangerouscreation.com

I find it appalling all the people who do not think our soldiers should be held to account if they recklessly kill civilians. That would put us on a par with nations such as Israel, and I for one don't want Australia to be placed in the same basket as them.
We should not be sending our soldiers to kill Afghans, who have done nothing to us. But if we do we must insist on them being very careful not to kill innocent people, especially children. When you kick in someone's door in the dead of night in a place as dangerous as Afghanistan, it would not be unreasonable to expect the householder to mistake you for bandits and fire on you. This is the case whether or not the householder is Taliban. In a country where most woman have 8 or 10 children, you would also expect that throwing a grenade into the house is going to result in children being killed.
If the soldiers had good grounds to believe they were dealing with Taliban militants then I am sure they will be found not guilty. If they were simply reckless with the lives of innocent people, then they must be held to account.

We should not be in Afghanistan,Iraq,Pakistan nor threatening Iran.
Even if you believe all the Osama Bin Laden BS ( ie the man with the fat and skinny nose who has multiple faces),nearly all these so called terrorists came from Saudi Arabia not Afghanistan.

Hamid Karzi the Pres of Afghanistan used to work for UNOCAL the oil company building the pipeline from Turkismenistan through his country,Pakistan then to the Capsian Sea.This is the most economically viable route.

When the Taliban had control in 2000,there was a heroine drought.Now under the auspices of the US Military it produces 90% of the World's heroine worth an est $50 billion pa.

So who are the real terrorists?

Well it appears quite obvious that the majority of us, myself included, don't want our troops fighting this unwinnable war.

So, the question must be asked, why the hell are we still there?

Perhaps it's time some type of 'on mass' petition is started to make our 'obviously blinded' political parties aware of the fact that they are part of a very small minority who actually want the war.

Boy, imagine just how much better off the average joe could be if we didn't continue down this path of 'mass waste'.

Any clues on how to get such a petition up and running and aimed at the right people.

After all, it's our money they are wasting and it's not as if their 'after polotics' pension will be effected.

The power of the people is what is needed here, I think.

Rehctub,

No one has ever seen a Political Party walking down the street.

We have seen Politicians but we cannot blame Politicians.

Without our consent Politicians could not do anything.

No matter how we turn the compass, its needle points to us.

To vote is to neglect our duties and surrender our rights, all our rights to charlatans who delight in wars, big wars.

Mr. Flint likes wars.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=11070#185446

socratease, spot on,

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=11070#185452

Peter Hume, i agree with all of your comment except the 3rd paragraph. We should not have gotten into this silly war but rightly or wrongly, politicians sent them there & the diggers should not be punished for following orders & training.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=11070#185463

mikk, how typical to see you standing up for the terrible "mistakes" of the Red/green/getup/labour Communist coalition.

There is ample evidence to show that many of the Loonier, Left, members of the Red/green/getup/labour Communist coalition have, over the last 50 years been following orders from Moscow. "White Anting" our nation with their corrupt ideas.

The Politically Correct Thought Police have much damage to answer for.

Should they be charged with committing "Cultural & Economic Terrorism or Treason?

Check out some of the evidence for yourself.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8630135369495797236#

Happy viewing.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=11070#185466

David G, half right as usual. The "Raving Right" types like former VP Dick Cheney don't get imperialism out of these wars. They get "short term" war mongering profits. The "Loony Left" get a war on the last bastion of patriarchal society, Islam.

Why hasn't the new democrat US government been keen to get out faster?

Why haven't Krudd or Germain Gillard been more vocal about quitting?

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=11070#185472

Rhys Jones, those appalling people, like me, account for 99% of the population. This is another example of why Tony Abbott could be PM any day now.

Civil war or a military coup becomes more likely daily.

Those farmers Bob Katter spoke about will soon stop shooting themselves & start shooting back.

I would prefer not to see it but the Red/green/getup/labour Communist coalition are the worst war criminals the world has ever known.

They have been playing Head F*%# mind games with the general public for 50 years now & wonder why Depression, Mental Illness & Anger are at plague proportions.

Formersnag, I heard a rustle under my bed this morning. I suspect that a socio-communist-green is lurking under there. Could I engage you to rid me of this terrible threat before I become corrupted?

I'm sure that you, and a few of your clever friends, could bring baseball bats and, clutching your bibles, give good account of yourselves as well as do something heroic for your country which knows that 'white is right' and 'right is right' and that 'capitalism is next to godliness' and 'America will save us.'

I can't afford to pay you much but I have a few shoes that still have some life left in them. What is your shoe size? Is it similar to your I.Q.?

http://www.dangerouscreation.com

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=11070#185475

Arjay, mostly correct as usual, but you are a little off mark, this time. Radical Muslim Terrorists are in every country in the world wherever ANY Muslims live. Saudi Arabian oil money has funded many of them & many of the worst examples have been Saudi citizens, but they are everywhere, including Brisbane. I have seen & identified them by the visible tattoos that some Radical Muslim sects/cults wear.

How immigration could make a "mistake" like missing a tattoo on the face is beyond me.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=11070#185504

rehctub, i don't think there would be ANY Australian who wants us in Afghanistan, including even our stupid, "Pollies", but apart from the, legal requirements of the ANZUS treaty, if we don't come running every time a US president whistles, then they won't protect us from foreign invaders in our region with more than enough MANpower & modern weapons to take over, any time they like.

Sadly we NEED the yanks more than they need us. If the Red/green/getup/labour Communist coalition had not kept our nation so small, weak, poor & powerless over the last 50 years, then we might be better able to defend ourselves alone. Even to the extent of keeping Northern hemisphere nations away from Antarctica, Whales, Tooth fish, etc, etc, etc.

Northern hemisphere nations are raping the southern hemisphere oceans, planing, to do the same to Antarctica's resources as well & we are powerless to stop them.

Which Aircraft carriers are you going to do any "gun boat" diplomacy with, ICBMs, nukes? Oh that's right we don't have any of that stuff, do we.

Formersnag,You portray radical Muslim terrorists as being the major problem.They exist but the real threat is still Bush's New World Order in which the corporate elites want total control.

Islam is of little threat compared to this high tech Orwellian corporate society we are fast approaching.

like the police investigating police brutality in their ranks, or
corrupt judges 'investigating' spurious and calumniating claims
against one of their M'Lords....

aren't civilians still in charge of the military, or was that all just window dressing for public consumption?

Like parsley on dog food is a military vendetta against enemy suspects...

This issue like every trial and tribulation that this incompetent government has put us through displays a lack of forward thought that we have come to expect from these self serving clowns. The legislation under which the boys will be tried comes straight out of the U.N. human rights charter, one of a thousand protocols that our politicians have signed off on that diminish or negate Australia’s right to judge its citizens under our laws, laws that have served us through two world wars and many smaller conflicts. Rudd appointed this politically correct "lesbian bitch in uniform" with a law degree because he wants to appease the U.N. and get a gig there after he has finished with Australia.

Australians are stupid, gutless and certainly not the ones to have on your side if the dung hits the air displacement machine given we hang our own out to dry and die for the sake of a U.N. mandate that America told them to stick where the sun don't shine.

mikk:>> If these soldiers did nothing wrong, as they assert, then they have nothing to fear from the court as they will be found innocent.<<

Mikk you’re a three meals a day suburban comfort dwelling imbecile. Innocent as they F…ING assert you say. I remember you lot when I got back from Nam . You are below despicable, a keyboard warrior with a fridge in the next room and a pub on the corner.

Close quarters contact is like nightmares except you have to see it through to the end and whether a professional soldier or an Afghan kid with a Kalashnikov you can bet neither of them started the conflict. Once again, you’re a despicable imbecile.

The only imbecile here is sonofgloin.
How would you feel if Afghan soldiers came to your house in the dead of night and killed your entire family? Would you not think that they should be held to account?
You obviously think our soldiers should be allowed to kill everything that moves, including babies. Maybe that is what you did in "Nam".
You may well feel OK about Aussie soldiers killing babies in your name, but I sure don't.
We should not be sending our soldiers to kill people that have never threatened us. But if we do, then we must ensure that they don't run amok killing innocent people, and if they do, that they are held to account.
Of course these soldiers may have done nothing wrong. The only way to ascertain that is through some kind of judicial process.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=11070#185524

skeptic, read the article again. Mr Flint didn't say anything positive about the war, only that our diggers are there now & should have our support.

As for the rest of your comment, voters do it in the vain hope that our alleged leaders will do the right thing by us.

Have you joined a REAL minor party? The Red/greens always were in coalition with the Clayton's Communist party.

How about a protest/lobby group? like http://comeonaustralia.com/

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=11070#185535

David G, i do pity you.

Try reading my comments next time. I have always condemned "The Raving Right" just as much as "The Loony Left".

I am politically, a moderate, middle of the road, centrist, like 90% of the population. Religiously i am a mild mannered, agnostic, who is just trying to protect children from people like You, who are the "out of step" weirdo.

There is also no need for violence. There is truck loads of evidence available to support real "Prima Facie" charges against the entire Red/green/getup/labour Communist Coalition for all manner of crimes. The Politicians, Bureaucrooks, Plus the Academics & Journalists that supported them. The "Organised Crime" & "Proceeds of Crime" laws could be used to seize all their property. Which would mean that we would no longer need "Asset Sales".

All we need is a Non Communist government to act on the evidence available.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=11070#185543

Arjay, near perfection again.

I am well aware that Muslim Terrorists are only a symptom of the
REAL problem.

Connect some more dots.

Socialism is the "Royal road to Power for the Super Rich"

The Orwellian UN NWO of which you speak is only half, Corporate or "Raving Right", the other half half is "Loony Left".

Stop "Moving Forward", Look backwards with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight at some of the worst examples of "Extreme Capitalism" that was & still is, being done by the Red/green/getup/labour Communist coalition, during Whitlam's, Hawke, Keating & Krudd's time, in the name of "reform".

Mass Immigration was designed to create racial & ethnic tension followed by ever tighter "Hatred" laws, to try & stop you complaining.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=11070#185548

SCRODE, be brave enough to use plain simple English, as i do. Those big words of yours may confuse poor David G as to whether you support or denigrate our troops.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=11070#185561

sonofgloin, Agreed, but don't be too hard on the GP, General Public. They have been growing tired of the "Politically Correct Thought Police". That is why their popularity began falling off so quickly. They are awake up to the "Musical Leaders, Face Changing Game".

"Same S*%#, Different Flies".

I was just talking to a male teacher this morning. They are treated the same way in all states & territories. He just got back from teaching English in China because he & his wife got sick of seeing their colleagues tortured over baseless allegations which are often proven false, but the Male teacher gets demoted or sacked anyway.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=11070#185563

sonofgloin, Spot on again. I was only about 12 at the time but i can remember seeing it on TV news when these "Peace Protesters" were throwing buckets of red paint or animal blood on diggers coming back, Disgusting.

Many of those scum are now "Academics" in Uni's teaching our youth.

The sooner Tony Abbott sets up a "Committee on Un Australian Activities" the better.

" Sooner Tony Abbott sets a committee on un-Aust activities the better".Sounds like you a peddling facism to me.Perhaps you need to look at the real facists like Bush,Cheney,Kissenger, Zbigniew Brezezinski etc.

see http://ae911truth.org/ http://patriotsquestion911.com/

"Close quarters contact is like nightmares except you have to see it through to the end and whether a professional soldier or an Afghan kid with a Kalashnikov you can bet neither of them started the conflict."

The ethical solution is also the most practical. The Australian soldier should leave, and should never have volunteered for such "service" in the first place. The Afghan kid is defending his home. What would you expect an Australian to do in similar circumstances? On the other hand, what is the Australian solider defending? An aggressive nation-state's prerogative to crawl even further up the arse of an even more aggressive state in its prerogative to perpetual war for no good reason?

Formersnag:>> "Peace Protesters" were throwing buckets of red paint or animal blood on diggers coming back, Disgusting.<<

Fs, I recall coming home from school and finding the old lady happier than I had ever seen her in my life, I am not kidding when I say the euphoria had me thinking we had won the Opera House lottery, then she told me that my eldest brother had been conscripted. The jubilation rekindled and continued when the old man got home, and right up until the brother was inducted. You see the brother was a handful and destined to violent crimes and jail if his youth was a marker to his future.

One month later I arrive home from school to find a kit bag in the back hallway, on entering the kitchen I found my brother in uniform making a cup of tea for the old lady who was head down sobbing into the kitchen table. They kicked him out in a little less than three weeks, the reason they gave was "undisciplinary" and his papers were marked "on call to active duty". A few years further down the track and he would have spent his two years sitting in Long Bay goal with the consciencious objectors. Many many years later over a few drinks I asked him what he had done to be booted out; he said "I did nothing, literally". From the time they told him to put on the uniform he did not comply, they told him to get up in the morning and he did not comply, he did nothing that they asked. The NCO'S sent him to the brass and the doc's and then the MP's locked him up and beat him regularly for a week, mum always blamed his kidney problems on those beatings. He since moved onto to fulfill his destiny with surprisingly little jail time.

As for me I was called I went I seen and I do not recommend it, it changes you, and I still say if you were not there you know jack, so shut up.

Modestly Formersnag says: I am politically, a moderate, middle of the road, centrist, like 90% of the population. Religiously i am a mild mannered, agnostic, who is just trying to protect children..."

Listen, Formersnag, why don't you apply to the Catholic Church for Sainthood? They are looking for perfect male beings who know everything and you'd be a shoe-in!

Look, don't stop at Sainthood. Why not apply to be Pope?

http://www.dangerouscreation.com

Peter Hume>>The ethical solution is also the most practical. The Australian soldier should leave, and should never have volunteered for such "service" in the first place.<<

Peter I agree with your sentiments, but do remember that there is no such thing as a volunteer when you’re in the services. If they ask for volunteers they are asking you to comply. If you don't volunteer and you’re the one they want, you go anyway. Keep away from bagging the rifleman, the politicians and the brass are the bastards, not those at the front prepared to die.

Three empires have lost face to Afghanistan’s tribes in the past 150 years. The British, the Russians and the Americans all failed, they can beat the tripe out of the elephant but are powerless against the ant, and the ant is not the bad guy, as I said I agree with your sentiments but leave the pawns out of it.

Formersnag, while I agree with your comment on the US helping us, in the event we are threatened, I seriously doubt, with the costs the US has had to bear on the war, plus the ongoings costs, that they would have sufficient funding to even protect themselves, let alone us.

Sadly, I am beginning to suspect that those days of having the US as our greatest Alie, are all but over.

In the mean time, with every cent we waste on fighting that unwinnable war, that much needed 'tax payers' dollars would sure be a welcome boost to our economy right now.

Now, if and when this war is over, just what do our combined polies expect to achieve.

Late at night Australian soldiers, whilst on a mission to find and kill a senior Taliban commando, they encountered hostile fire. In response Australian soldier/s, inter alia, lobbed a couple of grenades into a building which it is claimed fire was coming from.

Does anyone know what type of building it was eg residential?

If it was residential wouldn't it be reasonable to expect that there would be innocent women and children inside? If so, why didn't the soldiers use teargas or stun grenades?

How good was the intelligence the soldiers were relying on? It would seem not very good since they didn't take out the commando they were hunting.

Roscop,
Congratulations, you have just summed up why we are wasting our valuable time and resources fighting this war.

So long as the enemy devalues the lives of their own so poorly, evidenced by the way they use them as 'human shields', we will continue to cause civilian casualties, or, even worse, risk our highly trained soldiers by placing doubt in their minds, as now they are all fully aware that they may well be charged if they dare make a poor decision at the heat of the moment.

Remember, it is a war!

Best to get the hell out of there I say. We have far better options for spending those billions back here, were they are most certainly needed.

Continued
I just wonder how many of the lives we have already lost, including those of our allies, have been lost through hesitation or indecision, caused by the rules that only one side must obey.

In war, there are no rules when only one side obeys them.

I have often wondered what it would take for our home grown army of PTSD's victims; ex Vietnam / Bikie Vets; Anzac Day imposters; Military & paramilitary rejects; wannabees; psychs,assorted flotsam & jetsam, sundry adolescents etc to feign indignation, and relive Oz Military History,- from the comfort of their soapbox ?

Author Prof David Flint: a passionate contributor to olo. Is head shirang of the Monarchist Group " Australia for a Constitutional Monarchy ". A fanatic Anglophile ( pommy lover ) he is another pseudo-Menzies zealot. He remains committed to Constitutional change. Our Justice system. Aust's sixty five International Affairs, Treaty Obligations & Conventions etc. For more: Google his bio. Read: Flints Fawlty Logic on Independent web site.

This article first appeared weeks before olo's redact. Flint is ambivalent about our Diggers in Afghanistan, and the impending investigations by Brigadier Lyn McDade, nearly 10 months after the tragic incident in Uruzan Province. Afgh.

Judging from the responses here,many are upset without knowing the sequence of events.

The ADF, and Generals Hurley, Gillespie, McOwan, and most senior Officers are affronted that three servicemen serving there, can be Court martialed in performance of their sworn duty. All, have strenuously opposed the investigation, that has embroiled the Governor General, PM, Leader of the Opposition, and a host of Parliamentarians, to quash proceedings. Petitions across the Nation are being drawn up, to present to the GG, to end this farce.

This is not an isolated case. Capt Braker Morant ( 1864-1902 ) Boer War. Was charged and condemned to death by a firing squad. David Hicks, was charged and sentenced by US Military Commission Act, for aiding the Taliband, and incarcerated in US Guantanamo Bay prison, for 5 years. Chief Petty Officer, Margaret White. RAN. Was charged with gross indecency against 5 Navy women and challenged the Defence Force Disciplinary Act, in the High Court, which was rejected 6:1. In the UK, Cpl Donald Payne with 3 others, was the first Briton, convicted of War Crime, committed in Iraq.2003. There are numerous other headline cases.

rehctub, you say " our highly trained soldiers ... may well be charged if they dare make a poor decision at the heat of the moment."

Why would it be at the heat of the moment? Wouldn't they already know from intelligence that it is highly likely that innocent civilians live the building/s involved in their operation?

I haven't quite worked out in my own mind why "our highly trained soldiers" were stunned to find their actions, which I understand included lobbing highly lethal grenades, had caused the death of women and children. You say the enemy uses their own as human shields. Shouldn't that have been some clue for highly trained soldiers

The position of Director of Military Prosecutions, is the result of a Senate Inquiry 2005, which was critical of the methodology the ADF conducted their trials through it's inception. It provisionally adopted this new format, to ensure justice prevailed, despite it's hurried " band aid " appearance. Canada and India, have a similar Military covenant.

The ICC - International Criminal Court ( July.2002 ) which Flint wants to see dumped, is responsible for War Crimes. Crimes against Humanity. Genocide etc. It's Chief Prosecutor has so far indicted sixteen individuals. It investigates possible War crimes committed by NATO troops and insurgents in Iraq, Rwanda, Congo etc. Unless the UN Security Council specifically request an investigation, most cases are referred to by victims crying out for justice, and have been unfairly targeted.

The ICC, on hearing a complaint brought by victims of the Specialist Order Target Group, deployment. 12 Feb.2009, in which 6 civilians died, and 4 young children seriously injured, summarily lodged a NGO inquiry, which eventually involved the ADF Bureaucracy. It hastily went into damage control. McDade was summoned to fend off the ICC impending inquiry. As a Sovereign Nation, we would launch our own procedural investigation instead.

In the meantime, her investigating Task force in Afghanistan is being stone walled, and unlikely to gain any insight into the sordid affair, except fro media leaks, and paradoxically enough, from an unlikely source - SBS program Dateline ! The video went to Air,and has since been gagged !

An Afghan newsman Farid Popal flew to Urezgan Province, with a cameraman. Interviewed members of the aggrieved family. They claimed compensation, an apology and possibly future restitution. The entire village was interviewed, including the Patrol's translator. Evidently, he apologized for the night in question, and readily confessed, they had raided the wrong compound ! The film clip has since been impounded for security reasons. Reparations were hurriedly validated.

The whole shenanigan has been one the ADF will have to live with forever and a Day !

There has never been witness statements. Forensic evidence;et alone corroboration from anyone. The post-mortem centered on the testimony of the incumbents involved. As far as the 1st Commando Regiment was concerned, they eliminated the enemy, and any fall out was incidental. Noone witnessed the scene, and the Patrol successfully concluded the rendezvous with no injuries sustained. Another copy book engagement ?

So far, only three servicemen have been charged. One l/cpl, a Sgt and the Commanding Officer. The charge: 1/ Manslaughter 2/ Dangerous conduct 3/ Failing to comply with a lawful general Order, and prejudicial conduct.

There could be monumental repercussions throughout the ADF if anyone is convicted. It sets a dangerous precedent, which will affect morale, recruitment, careers, promotion, esprit de corps, Regimental pride. comrade-in-arms, and voluntary serving one's Country, in a War zone ?

On the balance of probabilities, it is unlikely any of the evidence collected will be useful in the short term. No soldier will attest on oath, against comrades, for fear of reprisals and contempt. Civilian testimony would be, at best only tolerated as hearsay evidence. The Panel of Judges ( Senior Officers ) are unlikely to convict on spurious testimony and faulty recollections of the event, over such a long time span. McDade's career prospects will be under a cloud. The window dressing charade will be allowed to run it's course.

The Director of Military Prosecutions will have no case to answer.

rehctub states "So long as the enemy devalues the lives of their own so poorly, evidenced by the way they use them as 'human shields', we will continue to cause civilian casualties..."
The problem is that there appears little evidence that the man firing on the Australian troops was an "enemy" or using his family as "human shields". If this man was merely protecting his family and home from invasion by unknown armed assailants in the dead of night, then there are some serious questions to be answered. Merely dismissing every Afghan killed by our troops as "the enemy" and justifying the killing of children the "the enemy using them as human shields" is no substitute for a genuine investigation and prosecution if our men acted recklessly in killing innocent people.
Although this may be holding our soldiers to a higher standard of behaviour than we expect of the Taliban, that is rightly so. We are the ones who have gone there bearing arms, not the other way around. We cannot maintain our legitimacy there (if we ever had any) if we allow our soldiers to kill civilians with impunity.

Jacinta,

I have thoughts regarding some things you say:

1. “On the balance of probabilities, it is unlikely any of the evidence collected will be useful in the short term”. How about corpses with grenade fragments embedded and the nature of injuries suffered? Not primary evidence? Aren’t soldiers wirelessly connected for voice comms these days and if so there would probably be witnesses to what the orders were.

2. “No soldier will attest on oath, against comrades, for fear of reprisals and contempt”. What are you suggesting might happen? They won’t give a full and truthful account of what happened? They will obstruct the course of justice? They will show contempt of court?

3. “The Panel of Judges (Senior Officers) are unlikely to convict on spurious testimony and faulty recollections of the event, over such a long time span”. Why are there people still chasing alleged WWII criminals if something less than 2 years is considered such a long time span? Do you think soldier's memories are likely to be as faulty Alan Bond's?

Roscop & Rhys Jones
So what you're saying is that so long as the enemy is using their own as shields, our soldiers should not engage.

Or, if our soldiers are being fired upon by 'unknowns' then they should not return fire until they are 100% sure who they are dealing with.

Now that all seams fine, if they were playing some 'board game', but, may I suggest you bring that idea up with the families of the soldiers who have lost their lives, some of which probably occurred due to indecision or uncertainty.

I am assuming you are both aware that it's a war they are fighting, and not ours!

This simply backs up what I and many others are saying. Why are we even there if we can't fight the enemy unless they play fair.

Get the hell out before we waste even more 'borrowed money' and sacrifice more lives, all because only one side has rules.

I say again, we need a referendum on this issue, and fast.

rehctub, No I wasn't "aware that it's a war they are fighting".

Please note text from the ADF's website:

http://www.defence.gov.au/op/afghanistan/info/general.htm

Australia’s military commitment to Afghanistan operates... as a peace-enforcement mission under...

Not a war hey! Well, you can fool yourself as long as you wish, but with the collective thousands of so called 'peace keepers' that have been killed, along with the collective trillion$+ that has been spent/wasted, I am sorry, but to me, that is war! And it's someone else's war.

I do not go off to work each day, sometimes seven days a week, to pay taxes, just to have them wasted on some war/peacekeeping mission in some far away land where 98% of the wealth is held by 2% of the population.

Remember, it's been almost ten years! And what has been achieved.

It's beyond a joke now and is even being used as a political football. All at my expense. No thanks!