Mindless,

"Strangely, people that fund private education...taxpayers...believe that they should have access to what they fund. However, understandably, greedy selfish elitists believe not."

Perhaps these taxpayers should believe that their learning disabled children should have equal access to fully taxpayer funded institutions such as the selective schools, the Newington performing arts school and the top tier universities.

Most independent schools only receive a portion of their costs from the state, and modifying their facilities to cater for special needs would cost vastly more than the subsidy for the child concerned. Add to this, the additional facilities for which the schools charge fees are generally of a nature for which the "special" needs children cannot take advantage.

Most taxpayers are not such idiots. I am prepared to debate the point, but would expect more than a simplistic "it is self evident" motivation.

@Shadow Minister, you’re mixing apples with oranges. We’re talking about education in general, and the funding disparity between private and public schools. We’re not talking about people with Disabilities. That’s a totally different issue. I work in that area, and I suspect that the you raise this issue because you are a parent of a child with a disability, or have another family member with one. Is that correct? If you wish to specifically talk about Disabilities, then I suggest you initiate a thread about the topic.

At the moment, we’re wasting hundreds of millions on Disabilities…please do not misunderstand that comment…I’m not suggesting that there should be less or no funding, I’m saying that the monies are inappropriately spent, wasted and that the overall level of care has diminished since 1984 and the advent of “deinstitutionalization”. I’m one of the last formally qualified people in Disabilities in the State, and there hasn’t been anyone trained since 1984. Nor in Mental Health (I fluctuate between the two fields, sub-contracted to an agency).

So if you want to hear someone vent their spleen on bureaucrats, incompetence, mismanagement, corruption and a lowering of service levels at increased costs, just talk to me. But I warn you, the picture I will paint will be dire…only because the services are dire.

Oh, and about the average tax-payer…yes they are that dumb. You DID use the word “average”, and the average person doesn’t understand a great deal about funding/finance, politics or business, and how they interrelate. And the proof in the pudding is the fact that 60% of all new small businesses fold within 3 years of opening their doors….the average person thinks all they have to do is open their doors for business and they will be rich, or at least “successful”….60% of them!! The remaining 40% become part of the 10% or so that are in business, while the rest don’t even attempt it. So yes, they are unfortunately that dumb. The easiest part of business is opening your doors. The hard part is keeping them open.

MC

Private schools do generally take in kids from all different abilities. Most have feeder junior schools with no testing which provide about 70% of the children. Another 10% have academic and other scholarships from different walks of life, and the final 20% to 25% vying for the last few senior school places are filled on merit. The bottom streams of each year are definitely not genius material.

Most kids do have access to these schools, the main factor is whether their parents are willing or able to pay the fees.

With regards the funding disparity, Private schools get about 50% to 80* of the funding of public schools. The rest is made up from fees. This in reality frees up funds for public schooling as about 75% of independent schools would close if not for the partial subsidy from the state.

Even the labor government recognises that independent schools cost the state less per child and they get a education that is at least as good as the public schools.

The debate over funding private schools is driven not by economics, but by envy. Equality should be achieved by bringing the public schools up to the independent schools levels, not tearing down the achievers to the public school levels.

@Shadow Minister, “The debate over funding private schools is driven not by economics, but by envy. Equality should be achieved by bringing the public schools up to the independent schools levels, not tearing down the achievers to the public school levels.”

I understand and agree with all you have said. Correct me if I’m wrong, but under Howard, he raped the public school system and fed just a few of the private schools that catered to the captains of industry. This is the disparity I am referring to.

I have no problem with private schools being funded, and understand how the fee structure works, but my understanding is that under Howard, they were funded disproportionately. I’m not aware of the Rudd government correcting that disparity, though of course it may have occurred. (My kids are grown-up now, so I don’t follow this as closely anymore).

I totally agree that there shouldn’t be a “tearing down the achievers to the public school levels”. I am not advocating that at all. I’m just suggesting there should be greater parity and that education (along with health) should not be used as political footballs.

@Pelican, thanks mate. It’s nice to be able to find agreement as well as disagreement with the same people, isn’t it? As an aside, I once met a guy that was the same age, had basically the same background as me, and saw the world in an identical manner as myself. It was a little eerie, actually. We were both intrigued initially, and for the next few weeks talked about life, the universe and everything. Then one day we parted, seemingly both knowing that we would not see each other again, though nothing to this effect was said.

We had nothing to talk about. It was like talking to ourselves. Well, at least it proved to me that I’m not a COMPLETE narcissist.:-) :-) :-)

MC

"Correct me if I’m wrong, but under Howard, he raped the public school system and fed just a few of the private schools that catered to the captains of industry."

Actually you are wrong. Under Howard the public school funding per pupil in real terms (above inflation) increased by an average annual rate of 1.6%

The funding per pupil in independent schools increased more dramatically, but is still substantially less than public school per pupil funding. As a result, there has been a boom in independent schooling as parents now have more choice.