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The Forum > Article Comments > The complexity of the ‘Christian vote’ > Comments

The complexity of the ‘Christian vote’ : Comments

By Mark Stephens, published 11/8/2010

The 'Christian vote' ought to be about 'wise' government in the bibilical sense

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Runner
Almost all of the world's recognised biological scientists, plus the Catholic, Anglican and Episcopal churches (and probably other churches as well – I haven't had time to check), together with heaps of prominent Christian writers, now agree that the theory of evolution by natural selection is now established just as strongly as other familiar theories recognised as scientific facts and that the theory of creationism is no longer tenable. Why, exactly, do you think you know better than that lot?
Posted by GlenC, Thursday, 12 August 2010 1:12:31 AM
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runner,

The non-religious don't have "faith" - they don't need it. They judge using reason. Belief in evolution is not an act of faith, it is an act of reason.
The religious are forced to employ faith because they have no other way of sustaining their belief.
Posted by Poirot, Thursday, 12 August 2010 8:51:50 AM
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My issue with Christianity is that it is being used as a "get out of jail free" card to justify *any* behaviour.
From "God hates Fags" all the way to mushy Left sentiment, you can use Jesus for just about anything. Pity more Christians don't understand just how anti-establishment Jesus was! Also "Turn the other cheek" is anathema to most Christian creeds.
"Faith" it seems can excuse any level of ignorance (Hi runner!) to the degree that I wouldn't be surprised if there were Christian Flat Earth societies! Really sad that folks are trying to undermine one of the most beautiful and well established theories in science (evolution), and to do it they resort to misinformation, "us and them" branding and peddling outright lies. Jesus would not approve!
The saddest thing is how faith is used to "steer" ignorant, almost primitive peoples into evil acts. The use of the Christian vote by GW Bush was a good recent example: Who cares if he lied to justify a war that killed millions? He was a "good Christian" so that's better than some dodgy educated Democrat!
Thankfully here in Australia the Dark Ages variety of Christian has had it's day since Howard passed on from power. "Christian" schools are still a a worry as they are allowed to teach manufactured "doubt" about established knowledge, which I equate to (more) child abuse. Funny to see the angst about Muslims though: Don't they realise they *all* look silly in the modern context?
Posted by Ozandy, Thursday, 12 August 2010 9:15:23 AM
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re: Poirot 'The non-religious don't have "faith" - they don't need it. They judge using reason.'

If you just think about this, I'm sure you'll agree it is at least an overstatement. Faith is an absolutely unavoidable part of human life. Take politics, our context here, as an example. There is no point voting for anyone if you don't have some degree of faith, i.e. trust, that they will govern well. We aren't merely deciding on what proposed policy we prefer, because there are real live people, and all sorts of other uncertainties in the mix. Can I trust what they say, or rather, can I trust them? Obviously reason has some place in this type of decision, but in all forms of relationships there is a point past which reason alone cannot take you. We must decide that some others are trustworthy (a decision that can only ever be suggested, not demanded by the evidence), and then trust them, that is, have faith in them.

People of religious faith have decided that some object of faith is trustworthy, and have placed their faith in that object as a result. They may be misguided, misled, or just plain wrong about what they trust. Or they may not. But either way they are not exercising a faculty alien to the rest of humanity.

Claiming that one can live life by reason alone demonstrates either a lack of thoughtful examination or wilful self-deception.
Posted by msjane, Thursday, 12 August 2010 1:28:43 PM
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GlenC

Truth has never been decided upon the majority vote, Many scientist believed the aboriginals were the missing link not to long back. Any honest look at the ever changing theory of evolution is still very much faith based. Many biologist (although in a small minority) are creationist. Those that claim that the theory of evolution comes from reason are either naive or dishonest. To believe the big bang is nothing short of ludicrous. The non religous often have more faith than believers. Like many others they go to their graves full of self righteousness instead of those who have been given righteousness from the One who rose from the dead.

Why do I know better. Simple observation of creation speaks clearly of a Creator. Your faith leads you to another conclusion but don't be so arrogant as to call it true science. It is a joke and any thinking person not blinded by dogma knows it.
Posted by runner, Thursday, 12 August 2010 1:41:39 PM
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runner,

(I repeat) Belief in evolution is "not" an act of faith - it is an act of reason.
Faith is belief founded on the rejection of reason.
Posted by Poirot, Thursday, 12 August 2010 2:15:38 PM
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