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Shacking up for the future : Comments
By Amy Vierboom, published 10/8/2010There's a sleepover, one of them doesn't leave and it just happens - is a sleepover the best we can do?
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But Vanna, where is your control group? What are the happiness levels of people who went through the same relationship breakdown but didn't divorce? There aren't so of those many around these days but when I was growing up there were plenty of examples among my family and my friends' parents. They didn't seem all that happy either -- and their misery was infectious.
Posted by Jon J, Tuesday, 10 August 2010 9:28:05 PM
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Interesting article - however on the matter of young people just falling into de facto relationships as some extended sleepover - I think in Sydney its a more considered thing happening. Due to high rents and rental shortages in Sydney, the girl or boy friend in their early 20s is often moving into the family household of the other party to the relationship, complete with baby boomer parents and in some cases younger siblings - and in one case I know of, the girlfriend brought her dog and her chooks into the boyfriend's family household with her ....A move like this involves a good deal of family discussion, and is not something that "just happens" - the boyfriend and his family household in this case were checked out for suitability by both of the divorced parents of the girlfirend. Modern helicopter parenting perhaps??
Posted by Johnj, Tuesday, 10 August 2010 11:00:45 PM
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My parents divorced when I was a teenager.
Dad happily moved straight in with his girlfriend, and they eventually married 10 years later.They are still happy together. Mum never got over Dad leaving, was much unhappier after the divorce and never went out with another man since. I didn't like the thought of marriage or defacto relationships- now having both a mother and a stepmother. Until I met my husband, I never wanted to live with a man until I was ready to 'settle down' and save for a house together and have children. I had my share of proposals- without having lived with anyone! When I became engaged at 27, my fiancée moved in with me so we could save for the wedding and our future life together. I don't regret living together first. But I already had a commitment before I even considered it. We remain happily married 22 years later. Everyone is different. Posted by suzeonline, Wednesday, 11 August 2010 12:49:03 AM
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Houellebecq: <'...a woman who is hoping that cohabitation is the stepping stone to marriage... will likely hold back on complaining that the toilet seat is up - until she has a ring on her finger.'
I think that's a pretty offensive view of women."> I agree. <"The Author seems to think marriage is a guarantee of happily ever after.... "> 'Happy ever after' and 'til death do us part' have acquired different meaning with increased longevity (80, say). People used to be lucky to live to 35 yr old so it didn't take as many years for death to part us. Statistically - a bit of a dispute. It's really approx 50% of SOME marriages of various length that end in divorce. For example, say there is a base amount of 1,000,000 marriages in existence, and 100,000 new marriages annually. If there are 50,000 divorces per annum, there's a prevailing conclusion that 50% of all marriages fail. In fact, some of that 50,000 could be marriages that are 20 yr old; some that are 2 yr old, some 10 and so on. Therefore, to obtain a more accurate idea of the rate of marriage failure, we would have to look at the whole number (1,100,000) and use the whole base number to calculate the rate of divorce. "According to a 1995 study, ten per cent of marriages failed within six years, 20 per cent within 10 years, 30 per cent by 20 years, and 40 per cent by 30 years. Of the couples who divorced in 1996, 27 per cent separated within the first five years of marriage, and a further 22 per cent within the next five years. The average length of marriage was 7.6 years." http://www.aph.gov.au/house/committee/laca/Famserv/chap2.pdf EVENTUALLY (so the article says) - 43% of marriages end in divorce. Even if true, a lot of those unions have a very good innings, especially if considered alongside increased longevity. I wonder why the break up of a longstanding cohabiting relationship doesn't seem to be considered as just as painful and disruptive as a divorce. Posted by Pynchme, Wednesday, 11 August 2010 1:53:03 AM
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Btw: Married when I was a teenager, against all advice and coercion to each of us and my inclination against marriage. Have been married for over 30 years and he is still genuinely the nicest person I know. A deeply decent man; my best mate; a terrific father adored by our kids - and a feminist I might add.
One of our best and most romantic nights: In a strange motel. I had to be at Uni at the crack of dawn and we'd traveled a long, long way. I KNEW I/we should sleep, but we were resting back and started reminiscing about funny things the kids used to say and do when they were little. The two of us went on for hours raising one memory after another. In the end we were laughing until the tears were running down our cheeks and the dawn light peeping, when we were up and at the day. Snoozy but so happy. We'd spent the night sharing irreplaceable memories - it was like looking through an album together, or better. We think we're the luckiest pair in the world. There is something incomparable about sharing a history together. pynch Posted by Pynchme, Wednesday, 11 August 2010 2:18:51 AM
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Jon J,
Similar findings have been found in US studies. "Conducted by a team of leading family scholars headed by University of Chicago sociologist Linda Waite, the study found no evidence that unhappily married adults who divorced were typically any happier than unhappily married people who stayed married." http://www.americanvalues.org/html/r-unhappy_ii.html Early on (about the Hawke era when the Family court was being formed), feminists said that marriage was oppressive to women and was causeing them mental illness. This allowed no-fault divorce and the payment of child support (which has to be paid by the evil male of a father.) Years latter we find that the rate of mental illness is actually much higher in unmarried women, while child neglect amd child poverty is increasing due to the increasing number of single parents. The system of replacing marriage with de facto relationships is just one more thing feminists got wrong. Posted by vanna, Wednesday, 11 August 2010 3:28:00 PM
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