Apparently Ludwig's someone who'll switch his vote on the basis of which leader appears 'tougher' on asylum seekers. Anybody else?

Ludwig's gone from being a cheerleader for Gillard to a parrot for Abbott in less than a week. A week's a long time in lowest common denominator politics, apparently.

Over-use of the descriptive “illegal” continued...

# The term "asylum seeker" throughout the survey and these guidelines also includes individuals who have been rejected from the refugee status determination procedure on purely formal grounds (for example pursuant to the application of the safe third country concept) or on substantive grounds with which UNHCR would not concur (such as in case of persecution by non-State agents). In the absence of an examination of the merits of the case in a fair and efficient asylum procedure or when the rejection after substantive examination of the claim is not in conformity with UNHCR doctrine, such rejected asylum seekers continue to be of concern to UNCHR. These guidelines do not, however, relate to "rejected asylum seekers stricto sensu", that is, persons who, after due consideration of their claims to asylum in fair procedures (satisfactory procedural safeguards as well as an interpretation of the refugee definition in conformity with UNHCR standards), are found not to qualify for refugee status on the basis of the criteria laid down in the 1951 Convention, nor to be in need of international protection on other grounds, and who are not authorized to stay in the country concerned for other compelling humanitarian reasons.

http://www.alhr.asn.au/refugeekit/factsheet_3.html

Until an Asylum seekers claim is established, they are not deemed to be "illegal". If the claimant does not satisfy the requirements for refugee status, THEN they are deemed "illegal".

However, neo-conservatives tend to label all boat people as either "illegal" immigrants (or aliens) BEFORE the people have been assessed as being anything other than seeking asylum.

Some people appear to have forgotten in Australia a person is presumed innocent until proven guilty. The continued use of the word “illegal” to describe boat people is as inaccurate as it is deliberately heinous.

Tony Abbott & Julie Bishop take note.

To a great many of you, wake up to yourselves and stop behaving like frightened little children. Do you think these refugee's or illegals as you will are going to take your amazing life away from you just like your ancestors did to the Aboriginal peoples.(now that should stir it up)
Yes the government just cannot seem to get it right but to even consider taking Abbott seriously is a dangerous step down the extremely ignorant far right for which this country has been struggling to stay away from. If Toni is so spot on with his big add's then hell, let's sink a few boats on the quiet and start some labour camps for the rest. I'm sure your conscience would cope, after all you can go to church on Sunday and be forgiven.
The refugee issue is global, not restricted to Australia. We are one of the weakest countries when it comes to helping out unless you count wonderful places of human rights like China, Iran and North Korea which some seem to think are role models. The real fix to this problem is to stem the tide at the source and develop new strategies with our neighbours and allies to establish a series of processing centres that are linked and able to operate with a new agreement buy the UN that reflects the current situation.
All the racist refo bashing i find appalling from a group of people that can say and develop some really intelligent ideas on other subjects.

Severin, I'll be interested in the second part of your post...?

I'm bemused by what has necessitated it!
______________________

"......because ordinary decent Australians don't like being called racist by >>>>intolerant members of the commentariat<<<< or anyone else. They see that as being prejudice.

>>>>>Every time someone condemns someone as racist for their position on asylum seekers without trying to understand them and accepting that their view could be valid<<<<<...."

Posted by GrahamY, Tuesday, 13 July 2010 10:26:31 AM

I find this utterly astonishing!

OF COURSE those who are critical of asylum seekers are not ALL racist-but VERY many damn well are!! And on a forum that you yourself praise as the 'OLO way'/ an 'ethos'-should allow posters the absolute right to express the view-;the allegation of racism if that is what they percieve.

I am personally offended that you have allowed some extraordinary statements on OLO recently,-yet you find any criticism of what some DO construe as racist and intolerant views,- to be offensive!

'Intolerant members of the commentariat'? Excuse me?

As a website owner of a prominent discussion forum, it is implicit upon you to remain free of bias,-accommodating ALL views within the legal guidelines of defamation.

I venture to suggest that you have allowed your personal views to effect your statements in your comments to Severin.

The 'dressing down' is public, and thus my comments to you are equally public.

It is very disappointing.

Am I now to be dealt with in the same manner?

Severen it is you who need to focus

This is your nursery rhyme fantasy :
“boat people do not have documents either because they had to flee for their lives, or have had their documents taken from them during their travels to safety.”
“these men are very brave.”

But, the reality is more like this:
1) “The journey began in … city of Quetta in western Pakistan… Most clients paid $US6000 to $US9000.”
2) “They travelled to Islamabad, some staying in the al-Hira Hotel, before flying to Indonesia in late October.”
3) “Even though they were all Afghans, they obtained valid visas to Indonesia by posing as a Quetta business delegation with the apparent endorsement of the Quetta Chamber of Commerce.”
4) “The ‘'delegation’' were even treated as official guests in Indonesia for a few days after they arrived.But authorities became suspicious when they learnt that Mr Hussain had obtained a big blue and white boat at Lombok.”

Unfortunately Severin, reality is a much,much less romantic than your fantasies have you imagine.

Talk of “regional solutions” and “long term sustainable solutions” all sounds very nice and appealing ---but it is NOT realistic.

The only involvement -- the region-- is likely to take up is as transit point/stop-over on the way to OZ.

Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand el la are NOT inclined to accept thousands of interlopers/ ILLEGALS.
And the ILLEGALS themselves, don’t want such second-prize locations -- they want affluent, welfare states --- like Australia, Canada, The US & NZ.
(That should have been driven home very loud & clear by the Oceanic Viking saga – the Oceanic Viking hijackers , like the Tampa hijackers before them, didn’t want to be part of any regional solution— nor did Indonesia, for that matter!)

This “regional solution” sounds increasingly like spin designed to defuse the issue and tide labor over till after the election.

Arranging for ILLEGALS to be processed in East Timor or anywhere else, is just a waste of time and money.
It will only survive till some incident –likely a staged incident –occurs, then some OZ govt, intimidated by the whinings of the Severins, Briar Roses & David Gs will go all weak at the knees and quickly, and very quietly, usher them all to OZ, and will gift the multi-million processing complex to the local strong man as a summer palace.