From the Article;

'estimated deficit of more than 200,000 jobs'

From the Australian Bureau of Statistics

June 2010 Unemployment Rate : 5.2% / 603,400

Am I missing something here? Why do we need any immigrants to be Cooks and Aged Care Workers?

Also from the article;

'talk of cracking down on fraud, and restoring integrity to the immigration system does not help matters'

Is the author for real? Is he suggesting Fraud and a lack of integrity in the immigration system are good things?!!?

When is OLO going to stop printing this leftist, self-hating non-sense. The Australian immigration system is the envy of the western world.

Peter, does not Malaysia and other Asian countries have racial criteria for work and education places? It is bit rich to make simplistic comparisons between multicultural Australia with the rule of law for everyone, albeit that some small elements of racism may exist here (where does it not?).

Also, could you dig a bit deeper to display the many surveys of international students that still rank Australia highly as a destination.

I,for one, believe that readers should be told all the sides of a particular argument pointing to so-called Australian racism.

Of course we should realise the good doctor has a UN axe to grind. This should make all Ozzies very wary of any suggestions he may make. They will definitely not be in our interests.

Then we know he is working in Asia, so it is probable that he favors that part of the world, although he could be there "just for the money".

Then he suggests we should be open to Asian migration, particularly by those with higher education. What a surprise. He wouldn't work in Asian higher education, would he?

This is very much against our interests. We all ready have more than enough Asian immigrants with higher education in our academia, & our public institutions. These people come from the home of nepotism, & if we continue down this line, we will find ourselves, like the UK, with quotas for different races, in public enterprises. It's only a short step to favouritism as many complain of, in the UK.

All this in the name of multiculturalism, where racist attitudes flourish, as long as they are anti the host population.

It's time we told our universities to stop trying to be businesses, & concentrate in training our own people, not chase the holy dollar in foreign students.

Meanwhile be very careful of greeks bearing gifts, & United Nations operators, out to establish one world government, by the back door, as they know we won't let it in the front door.

Personally I could not give a stuff about how others view us, The idiotic left wing media will continue to loathe all that is good about Australia and paint everyone who disagrees with their warped worldview as rednecks or naive. The numerous friends I have from different countries speaks far more than the idiotic left who are to blind to see that their 'non racist' views have led to multitudes being drowned and yet they still claim the mortgage on compassion. I would rather be a racist and see people given a fair go than these fools who are totally blinded by their own dogmas. Watching the judge on Q & A last night just confirmed how illogical and embarrassing our so called 'elite' are with their totally contradictory and closed minded views. They even express them with a tear in their eye. What a joke! Most Aussies will still befriend and embrace many from different lands. It won't stop the majority who have a little common sense realizing that we need some sort of order in order to control our out of control borders. False idiotic crocodile tears from the left just makes us look totally gullible. I prefer to be called a redneck by fools than gullible by those with commonsense.

Immigration to Australia is a long and complicated procedure where huge wads of documentation, testing, etc are required. A colleague of mine (white, anglo-saxon protestant) said it took years, and was as much fun as rectal surgery. DIMA made it perfectly clear that even as a qualified experienced professional, it was a huge privilege to come to Australia and that he deserved their disdain and contempt as a non Australian.

I can very easily see why this attitude could be construed as racism, as the individual is guaranteed to feel victimised, but would personally like to assure prospective immigrants that the disdain and contempt is equal across all skin colours.

"Many Australians would be shocked that Australia is still seen as a racist nation."

No they would not. Self-hating white Australian renegades are continually saying that Australia is a racist country, as are minorities living here with out 'racism'.

If only all the illegals and immigrants coming here would believe that we are racist, and stay well clear of Australia

The real difference between Australia and the countries the author mentions is that our media plays up the racist angle for all its worth. The job seekers the author interviews is reacting to that media image, not the reality.
This is particularly so for students from Singapore, Malaysia and China where the press is tightly controlled. They may comprehend that the press here is much freer than in their own countries, but may not realise there is no state direction of any kind, not even to the point of the media making some effort to reflect reality.
To make matters worse they have probably only seen the items chosen by their own media, who are only too happy to portray Australians as racist dogs. No wonder they think we are all axe murdering bigots.
The reality is that compared to places like Malaysia, Singapore and China, in particular, occasional incidents aside, Australia is a haven of tolerence.
It is a pity that the media obscures reality.

what happened to the racism against Indians in Victoria? It is impossible to embarass the idiotic left media who report racism and then ignore facts when they come out. One Indian claimed a racist attack while lighting his car up for an insurance claim. Other Indians were killed by Indians in love triangles. Each time the press would froth at the mouth wanting to find a white Supremacist to confirm their prejudices . Of course the spotless Indian media was only to happy to join with our national broadcasters and others in promoting its little theories. India itself is probably the most racist nation on earth.

India shoots illegal immigrants trying to get in - for God only knows what reason they want to live there.

India is a caste system culture, this means it is INHERENTLY racist.

Malaysian Govt. uses vigilantes (yes, they pay them) to round up illegals.

Singapore Prime Minister said they should whip illegals upon being caught and sent home.

We give out money for nothing, accept you without papers. We are a laughing stock because we are NOT racist!

So ironic.

This writer needs to be exposed to how South Africans treat illegal Zimbabweans....they rounded them up and burnt them alive just last year because they thought they were taking their jobs.

Man...how insane are some westerners, so self-hating.

We are the envy of the world for our justice and tolerance.

Of course Asians think we're racist, they are always looking for it because thats how they are.

Think about it. And in the process of thinking Morgan, grow up. Honestly, ALL the evidence points to the fact that white, Anglo nations are the least racist cultures.

This is why people want to live here. If we were so bad they would not flee their tribal and racist dumps to live in western Anglo Centrelink Paradise.

And those Indian students for example were being bashed in Sydney by Lebanese Muslims.

This writer is a fool for taking them at their words. Trust me, the visa restrictions were the ONLY reason.

They all come from cultures where people are regularly murdered for bein different to the main 'clan'. Yes folks, you think the KKK is bad, they have nothing on non-western culture in general.

Racial restrictions on jobs in ALL non - western countries.

Religous discrimination is rife - and NO, not just in the rural parts where the hicks live.

Their cultures are HICK cultures.

They are children. We need colonialism again. We need to force these cultures into western values of tolerance because now they are annoying us, like Muslim terrorists.

The Governments are going to risk everything just to keep the wheels turning. The plan is to mix us all up, and breed a whole new race of people in Australia, and then the problem of racism ( in time ) is solved.

TTM

I have a nephew who was discriminated against by the predominance of Asians in a select school in Sydney which he could no longer endure so had no choice but to leave and joined a general public school where he became school captain. They didn't like this white guy in competition with them. Interesting times ahead.

Sometimes I think Australians are like dogs. Loyal, friendly, at times suspicious of others for no apparent reason and, most of all, desirous of love. We seem to be too busy wanting everyone else to love us, and beating ourselves up when they don't. Many nations are much less accepting of immigrants than we are. Many take more immigrants than us, but exclude them from citizenship and other distinctions that allow them to be truly included. Many ostracise minorities (consider the stateless gypsies in Europe, for example). The thing is, these nations aren't filled with media beat-ups about how racist they are, because they don't care. If we think they're insular and racist, that's fine with them.

We, on the other hand, constantly fuel these debates about whether or not we are racist. We ask people what they think about us, then get upset what they tell us. If we ask foreign students if they think we're racist, of course some of them will say "yes". That doesn't mean they have given it any thought before, or that they will give it another thought in the future. At that point in time, they call us "racist" then get on with their lives. We stew over the responses, argue about whether we really are racist and what we can do about it.

I say that, if we stopped asking, they would stop telling us we are racist and we could feel good about ourselves once again.

I give the pieces to the puzzle! Its your sh@t with your brains! .........if you have any......... to see the future.

Lets play it your way.

The planet fails.

TT>

Dear Peter Kell,

Thank You for a thought provoking article.

Denying some of the points you've raised
won't achieve anything constructive.
We as a nation should be interested in
how we are perceived by others, especially
if we want to be a part of the global scene.
Image is crucial, and we should be interested
in the reasons behind why people see us the way
they do, and more to the point we should be
interested in what we're going to do about our
image and reputation overseas.

Education does seem to be what's needed.
Closing a blind eye to things will work against
our attracting skilled workers to this country,
as well as international students that our
institutions of higher learning so desperately
need.

foxy - why would we care, why should we care, what the world thinks of us?

"We as a nation should be interested in how we are perceived by others, especially if we want to be a part of the global scene"

Why do you think everyone wants to be part of the global scene?

Most of us just want to be happy, bring up our kids and do the best we can, without need to be admired, or approved of, by foreigners.

"Image is crucial, and we should be interested in the reasons behind why people see us the way they do, and more to the point we should be
interested in what we're going to do about our image and reputation overseas".... why? Do countries really care about their international reputation, no of course they don't.

Image is not crucial, values are.

Let's stop cringing as we'll never form any kind of cultural cohesion if all our actions are to please others. We'll never please everyone, and end up looking .. well, like we do know with progressive types trying to mold us into a culture we don't easily fall into - multiculturalism is a myth, we all live here in our separate little worlds, hardly a cohesive society.

Some folks will never be pleased with us - see the way many in the Australian media find racism everywhere in Australia, that's just Australia, it's somewhat racist, but most of us accept that and don't constantly bleat that it MUST be different to please others.

Be comfortable with your countrymen and women, they are what they are.

Dear rpg,

I love this country.
However, we are a player on the world stage.
We rely on overseas trade, we need it
for our economy, to both import and export,
and whether people like it or not
we can't stick our heads in the sand and pretend
that the rest of the world doesn't exist, or that
our international reputation does not matter.
Our various governments have signed agreements
that have placed us on the international scene,
we're not some sort of isolationist backwater.
And our reputation does matter if we want to be taken
seriously.

In the 1950s and 1960s Australians were becoming
aware of the fact that Australia was considered a
cultural backwater.

For the best in the arts one
had to go overseas. However, during the following
years many plans were made to put an end to this state
of affairs. The Australian Opera House was built in
Sydney. In Melbourne, the Victorian Arts Centre was
built as was the art gallery. Then the overseas fame
of Australian masterpieces, like the play, "The Summer
of the Seventeenth Doll," and the fame of individual
performers like Peter Finch, Joan Sutherland, Sir
Robert Helpmann, Rolf Harris, the Seekers, Barry
Humphries and many, more...writers, musicians,
and performers in all the arts, earned Australia a place
amongst the world's best.

The same applies to sport, where Australians have long
excelled, with our athletes competing and gaining a
reputation worldwide. We all await the Olympic Games
eagerly, to show the world our ability and talent.
We even hosted the Olympics several times in this country.

Surely you don't want us to go back to the days when
the world thought of Australia as a place where
"kangaroos hopped around the streets," and where the
"down under" label was a label for backwardness?

Perhaps you do. I would suggest that most people
would find that no longer acceptable. Just as most of
us would no longer find outmoded words like,
"boong," "dago," or "wog," acceptable today. Clearly
people no longer view one another in that way, the
world needs to know that.

In response to Foxy’s : “ we should be interested in what we're going to do about our image and reputation overseas”

While I’ll admit that if one gleaned most of ones information about world affairs from GetUp or The Aust Refugee Council, publications, one just might be misled into thinking that the rest of the world is some sort of privy council looking down from its high benches with distain at our immigration policy.

But anyone else, who has done even a little bit of world travelling, or wider reading, and still has some semblance of independent thought would find the charge & image comical.

Outside the field of point scoring on some fora such a claim has no life or credibility.

I am reminded of a talk I heard in celebration of Gough Whitlam, in it Justice Kirby quoted Whitlam as saying that our regional neighbours would judge us on the basis of how we treated our aborigines.

Quite apart from the rights or wrongs of the way we treat our aboriginals. Anyone who knows even a smidgen about our near neighbours indigenous affairs would know our regional neighbours, were & still are, in no position to look down on us. And issues relating to our treatment of aborigines are well down any list of priorities they might have,

So there poor Gough was spouting off about something he was ill-informed about –and alas his long tern reputation, amongst thinkers, can only be poorer for it!

And it’s the same with “we should be interested in what we're going to do about our image and reputation overseas” with regard immigration policy--it has no legs!

But fortunately for Foxy –unlike poor Gough-- I’m here to point out the errors of her ways ---and preserve her reputation

Foxy , it just ain’t so! Australia's reputation will be fine.

Where have you been looking? Are you lot blind,or what?
Look around from the Gold Coast to across all of Australia you see Asians enjoying themselves. I've seen happier Asian tourists here in Australia than you'll see happy Aussies anywhere in Asia, except those who are making utter fools of themselves getting drunk and wrecking the places. They arent "happy" Aussies but riotously desperately sad ones trying to mask their manic natures. Have a quiet yarn with some travel agents if you dont get around. Show them this letter and ask for their opinion.

socratease

foxy do you think the French, the Japanese or even the Americans all worry as much as you do about what the world thinks, and stress out in case they don't think as well of you as you'd like?

We don't have to go back to a bygone day - we are what we are, a mature nation who does not have to constantly cringe or worry that we are not worthy.

I guess that's a complaint by conservatives about progressives, conservatives are comfortable with their place while progressives are mortally embarrassed by their own country, countrymen and women.

That's a difference in maturity I guess, I accept my country for what it is and don't opine for what it is not.

I'm happy with, and amused that the world thinks kangaroos hop down the streets here, I've seen them in the streets in cities, it does happen you know (foxes too) what's the problem? Do you really think everyone in every other country cringes the way you seem to about "what will people think!" Oh my!

If you're so embarrassed and constantly humiliated by your own country, I can understand your discomfort.

The Americans have a word for loving their country, it's "patriotic", and constantly criticizing your country and the people who live there is downright, "unpatriotic" they are mature and confidant enough not to have to squirm about their place in the world (they rule it, yes, we know)

You love your country, but just not the people in it .. would that be a fair summary (except all the people who think exactly like you)me, I welcome the diversity, and don't cringe because people around me may not think the same way.

There are populous nations with abominable human rights records who regularly call Australia 'racist' as a pay-back for refusing access to Australia's uranium.

It isn't that Australians are too naive to stand up for themselves, rather it is a case of a predominately tabloid media always taking the easy sensationalist headline rather than providing factual reports with analysis.

The term racist is always relative and it implies subjective judgement. Even God is racist (and worse!) according to some.

Dear rpg,

Please re-read my posts,
so that you will comprehend to what I
was responding, and the points that I was making.
Don't assume what's not there. You did ask afterall
why we should care what people thought of us.
I tried to tell you as best as I could.

As for what Americans think, well, as it
happens, we lived and worked in the US for close
to ten years so I am quite familiar with their
"patriotism."

cont'd ...

Dear rpg,

I forgot to add that if you really
welcome diversity as you say you do, and
you don't cringe because people around you
may not think the same way, then what's with
all this labelling of people in your post,
the term "progressive" has bad connotations
to some people. If I was a bit sensitive,
I may find that insulting.
And why such a strong reaction to my attempt
to merely answer your question of ,"why should
we care what people think of us."

I feel that you're protesting too much...

I agree Foxy. There are many responses to this article that are almost certainly inherently racist at their heart.

I imagine that if we discussed how the original inhabitants of this country felt about Europeans migrating here, there would be no response.

With the easy ways to travel the world today, both by air and electronically, Australians can't continue to live in total isolation anymore.
We need the rest of the world for trade, and for help with global problems, including terrorism.

As Julia Gillard said, we don't need to be labelled rednecks for being concerned about our immigration policy or our population growth, but we also don't want to be seen to discriminate against some cultures or religions.

It does no country any good to make an enemy of another.

Suz... you need to get off line and get on to some kind of suitable medication....

"There are many responses to this article that are almost certainly inherently racist at their heart."

hmmmmmm... perhaps she with the beam..... should take it out before projecting her own beams onto the specks of others ?

I'm beginning to think that many of you would be utterly devoid of purpose in life if you could not find something to attack your own people for.. or find a 'racist' lurking behind every person who simply stands up for their own identity.

You need some therapy..and I'm just the bloke to give it to you :)
(In my own humble manner)...

This...is your problem. You are confused about the nature of society and it's historical antecedents. Because of that basic confusion, you react in phobic ways to entirely normal and universal human behavior.

"Australia" is a country with a sense of self..and a lot of that sense is derived from the racial/cultural mix which came to predominate as a result of our colorful history. It just so happens to be mainly white anglo/celt/scot/irish. You might call that group of races..the 'core'.. and on that the rest (by invitation mind you) is built.

But.. and it's an important but..even 'our' predominance is built on it's own ugly foundation of disposession of indigenous people. So.. it is built if you wish, on...'racism'.

Your problem is not to 'fix' a few motly 'racists' on OLO, nor just white Australians, but the whole of human history....sorry but true.
Are you up to the task ? Can you reverse the Highland Clearances?
Can you repatriate the English children sent out here to fend for themselves? can you..can you....and so the list goes on..interminably so.

Condemnation of contemporary 'racism' as expressed by hypocritical people who dwell on stolen land... does not have much clout or credibility I'm afraid.

I now pronounce you...*FIXED* :)

Dr Boaz: << It just so happens to be mainly white anglo/celt/scot/irish. You might call that group of races..the 'core'.. and on that the rest (by invitation mind you) is built. >>

I think that would be a comment from a poster who is "certainly inherently racist at their heart", eh suze?

ALGOREisRICH:> condemnation of contemporary 'racism' as expressed by hypocritical people who dwell on stolen land... does not have much clout or credibility I'm afraid.<


AGIR there lies the quandary. it is akin to "let those amongst you without sin cast the first stone"

My personal outlook is that if I did not commit the crime I hold no responsibility, even if the crime was committed by my father or grandfather and I had gained by their actions is irrelevant to me. Each generation comes with baggage from our forebears that we accept or decline on a personal basis, and if we accept the baggage it is because we as individuals want to placate our own conscience, it is a self serving action that we attach a moral overtone to.

suzeonline:> I imagine that if we discussed how the original inhabitants of this country felt about Europeans migrating here, there would be no response.<

The generations of modern indigenous Aussies who came after European colonisation, and use the deeds of 100 or 200 years ago to justify their current position have no moral justification. There is no one here and now who has blood on their hands regarding the decimation of the indigenous peoples. But Aboriginals certainly have the moral right to seek a better life here and now, as we all do. Here and now we can comment on any social engineering that affects our lives at present, but to proffer historical events as the foundation for division in a present society is seeking victim status without being a victim.

Dear Suze,

Thanks for your input.

It is much appreciated.

I've just come across an interesting
website that's worth a read.

http://chrissarra.wordpress.com/2010/02/06/racist-attitudes-a-cancer-on-the-nations-soul/

It tells us that:

"There doesn't need to be a contradiction between
having pride in our national identity and recognising
that we have problems with social transformation and
accepting diversity. It isn't a matter of one or the
other...

Multiculturalism is muddled and disorganised, it is
uncomfortable for some because it includes conflict,
disagreement and misunderstandings. That's just how
it is. It's complex, but complexity is OK..."

And there's much more. As I said, it's worth a read.

Dearest Al, I don't need a 'beam' to search for what you stand for...you put it out there quite plainly for all to see.

Your so-called 'core' of '...mainly white anglo/celt/scot/irish' people in this country are only a part of a larger multicultural society that makes up our wonderful population.

The Aboriginal peoples were here first, and the Chinese and Afghan peoples have been here pretty much as long as the white Europeans.

I hear the Ku Klux Klan are trying to get a group together here in Australia- maybe you could look them up for a bit of moral support?

From the article -government needs to start an education campaign inside and outside Australia. It needs to confront the racial dog whistle politics of cynicism and fear that endures from the Howard years inside Australia and it needs to address the perceptions about Australia overseas.

Actually, i thought the “Howard Years” were pretty good, at least compared to the more recent Rudd/Gizzard “Moments of Incompetent Bungling”.

Lets face it, those days, under the yoke of the Liberal coalition were when we were more concerned about which restaurant to eat in, rather than if we could afford sausages and pay the escalating power bills and if we might have a job at the end of the week.

So for perceptions of things –

someone once said to Voltaire, 'Life is hard.' To which is replied: 'Compared with what?'

I suppose perceptions of a “racist Australia” are only relevant when we ask – compared to what?

Malaysia, maybe, an Asian country which legalised and insists on instilling ethnic Malays onto the board of directors of businesses because of their race.

This article is just more self-loathing drivel from an Anti-White Australian.

Doubtless the Australian Electorate will have their say soon.....

Keep migration (be it legal or illegal) an election issue, if you want to get back an Australia worth living in –

but it will only be so under a Liberal Coalition Government.

Stern:>someone once said to Voltaire, 'Life is hard.' To which is replied: 'Compared with what?' I suppose perceptions of a “racist Australia” are only relevant when we ask – compared to what?<

Well put Stern, thank you. I have spent extended periods abroad due to my work, so you get to know the nuances and prejudices of a culture after a couple of years of living in it. We are at the bottom of the racist scale from my observation; we are as welcoming as the best I have experienced abroad.

Regarding the Anglo and European heritage amongst us who have adopted the PC mandate as their ethos. I have observed that they usually accept that Australia is a racist country as a matter of course, but I have also found that their only experience of other cultures comes from personal perception through second hand media input or a bit of tourist time. As you perceptively recounted" compared to what".

Repeat my earlier post....Australians, and the north-west Europeans in general, i.e. Anglo's, and the Scandanavian type countries, France, Germany....are the LEAST, repeat, LEAST racist cultures on earth.

There is no argument about it. Laws on the books say it all in non-western countries. Particular ethnicities are kept out of certain jobs (here they are given job BECAUSE of ethnicity in some cases - affirmative action - a paternalistic, patronising and very racist policy.

Those who really think we are racist need to look at how our neighbours treat asylum seekers.

As I said earlier, India actually shoots on sight.

Did you get that? Shoots to kill, on sight.

No questions.

But we are evil for how we treat them. What those who think this are revealling, without even knowing it because its so deeply entrenched in their minds, that THEY are racist.

Why?

Because they must expect less of Indians, or any of our neighbours which are all far worse than us.

You actually have private citizens in places like South Africa that rounded up Zimbabweans fleeing the racist trash policies of Mugabe (took away white land, no white farmers, blacks starve...he thought that one out didn't he!) and burnt them alive.

Alive!

Yet our 'rednecks' who just don't want any more non-westerners because non-westerners are extremely insular, tribal, and yes, dare I say it, homophobic, misogynstic, and racist (in general, there are always a few who go against the normal cultural values of their cultures - like Ayaan Hirsi Ali for example - CJ MORGAN should read her book because she comments about how female genital mutilation affects Somali Muslim women - yet CJ just equates it with male circumcision - that is disgusting, and misogynistic towards women)...

...
Australian-Australians (of all colours and creeds) are sick of the violent crime to that comes with asylum seeker cultures.

We can't hate asylum seekers because their value systems are violent, tribal, and totally antithetical to western notions of human rights (as opposed to tribal rights).

But we can stop letting the rich ones in. The party that does this will win the election because Aussies are against tribalism and racism and don't like reading about ethnic gangs (think about how racist it is to hang out in a pack of those just because they are of the same race!

It's not possible to comprehend for enlightened cultures who value individualism.

Europe is waking up because they have more of them, and the more you have, the more problems as the evidence shows.

And when they run affairs, like they do in the countries they dominate, you have nothing but violent hellholes.

We don't want that here.

I'm not sure where the author is coming from. Racism these days has no meaning, it can virtually mean anything to anyone. However having working for a global IT company which sent on assignments all over the world I can only say that the 3rd world countries treated me totally differently. US, Canada, and Europe were the best places to work in, especially if you dealt with the native population. India, Thailand, China, Iraq, Indonesia and Malaysia is where I really felt uncomfortable due to ingrained xenophobia. I guess there is a reason why they're fleeing their home countries to live amongst the racists, but the racists are not really wanting to live their cosmopolitan countries? I suggest the author stays in China where he feels comfortable and he will see how cosmopolitan the Chinese really are. I think the Australian immigration programs should definitely favor people from similar cultural backgrounds, ie Judo-Christian Western European. In the coming decades there will be lots of Europeans fleeing their multi-cultural utopia. I also don't understand why we need immigration for economic reasons? Downward pressure on wages is the only visible economic indicator, apart from that you actually waste more money on immigration programs, integration, crime and corruption problems.

"As I said earlier, India actually shoots on sight.

Did you get that? Shoots to kill, on sight.

No questions."
_____________________________

Holy Ganesh!! You'd better be careful how you sail down the Ganges then!

While “shooting on sight” is over stating things.
I have no doubt that Indian border security might be a little more trigger happy than your average western bleeding heart ensconced in suburbia might desire.

But then , if some of those bleeding hearts had had to put up with this , in their major city--more than once:
http://vodpod.com/watch/2502509-secrets-of-the-dead-mumbai-massacre-pbs
and similar, every second day, in their border regions.
They mightn’t be so tolerant and forgiving, either !

( multiculturalism gone sour!)

Actually, I do remember when the European border guards were noted for their trigger happy qualities too....

that was when the Iron Curtain kept Germany divided and the East German border guards shot at anything which moved....

Of course, they were not shooting at people trying to get in

They were shooting at the fellow citizens who were trying to escape.

It is good to remember that a mere generation or so ago, people were imprisoned in Socialist countries, unable to make their way in the world because they carried the burden of a domineering and ruthless state on their backs, from cradle to an early grave.

"It is good to remember that a mere generation or so ago, people were imprisoned in Socialist countries, unable to make their way in the world because they carried the burden of a domineering and ruthless state on their backs, from cradle to an early grave."

Posted by Stern, Monday, 19 July 2010 8:21:09 AM
__________________________________

What simply appalling behaviour! Unheard of in Fascist countries, where 'enemies of the State' were invited around for tea and Tim-Tams.

(After they got their little tattoo of course).

ginx .. "After they got their little tattoo of course", the only place I can think of where this was done, was "Nazi" Germany .. which was of course "National Socialist".

Which "Fascist" country were you referring to?

Thank you for raising this important isssue - it mirrors my experience talking with Indonesians. The street view is that Australia is unwelcoming, pro-American, aggressive and suspicious. These views are reinforced by the visa restrictions and travel warnings along with anecdotal eveidence of Asians being harassed. Just download the visa application form - lodgment not available in electronic format in Indonesia. Look at the cost - about Rp 1 million. Read the questions - why do you want to visit Australia? bank account details, who do you know in Oz, provide details - and so on. Now compare entry to Indonesia, Malaysia and S'Pore. Imagine if Indonesia imposed the same restrictions on people travelling to Bali - filling in a 17-page form in Indonesian before they can buy the ticket.
Yes, we need to keep out terrorists and criminals. So does Singapore, but it does this in a more cirumspect and less offensive way. Duncan Graham

Ginx - What simply appalling behaviour! Unheard of in Fascist countries, where 'enemies of the State' were invited around for tea and Tim-Tams.

So I assume, from your flipant attitude you see a difference between Fascism of the pre-WWII "Germany" and the post-WWII "East Germany".

doubtless you are ignoring the fact that Stalin and his heencemen murdered more people than Hitler - but lets face it he, his predecessor, Lenin and his successors were at it for more years.

In terms of

Democracy versus Fascism

and

Democracy versus Collectivism

it is the same "battle"

Democracy versus a murderous and all powerful state.

in short

apart from smarter uniforms and the reputation fo rtrains running on time, there is nothing to distinguich Fascism from Collectivism (by any name), both repressive systems survived by killing anyone with the courage to talk out against, let alone resist them.

Now Ginx go back to your big book of Marx and other failed philosophers and eat it... if this were a collectivist state, that is likely all you would have to eat anyway.