TTM and Shadow Minister,

I can never understand what people mean when they say that Aboriginal religion, or art, or languages, or culture generally is sixty thousand years old: all 'culture', etc., is equally old, or young, and surely its origins go back to the first humans, back in Africa ?

If people mean that Aboriginal culture etc. has not changed in 60,000 years, what is so great about that ? I don't think that it is the case, but what are people claiming ? Yes, sixty or forty or twenty thousand years ago, all human groups had roughly similar 'culture', depending primarily on the local environments, but at the end of the Ice Age (during which surely 'cultures' had to adapt ?), some groups were able to develop agriculture and pastoralism, while other groups 'chose' to keep foraging, since it was probably more productive (cf. Bellwood's 'First Farmers', a brilliant book).

But what would be so great about not changing, even if it were so ? Isn't that the definition of hide-bound conservatism ? And isn't it the case that Aboriginal society has been fundamentally transformed, in some parts much more than others, by 200 years of 'interaction' with outsiders ?

In short, everybody has had culture for about the same length of time, but some groups are aware of foundational transformations while other groups prefer not to admit to changes ? All human groups have had language for about the same length of time, and God knows what changes every one of them must have undergone, as environments, food sources, productive techniques and cultural practices changed.

All human societies change, adapt, innovate, modify, borrow and learn from each other - we all have done this for a hell of a lot more than 60,000 years. Nobody is privileged in this and only the accidents of geography have denied those early interactions between groups, across what the historian Phillip Curtin called the 'intercommunicating zones'.

Joe

TTM and Shadow Minister,

"I can never understand what people mean when they say that Aboriginal religion, or art, or languages, or culture generally is sixty thousand years old: all 'culture', etc., is equally old, or young, and surely its origins go back to the first humans, back in Africa ?"

Loudmouth, Shadow Minister. I was wondering who would pick-up on that one, and no, Iam not testing your Intel, merely the memories to the facts of past writings.

Loudmouth. Yes you quite right and thank you for rephrasing it. I remember reading something a few years ago along the lines of, "in the times of human evolvement, I believe there was one critical turning point regarding our transitional change from apes to man. When instinct left and the conscious mind began, the first humans looked up to the sky's and began to wonder and question, then find explanations for his existence in the wonderful and confusing new world his eyes pondered upon, and then gazed to the heavens which brought forward all the wonderful gods which the imaginations had given.
So man began with paintings on the walls with the great bull gods, the great serpent gods, and god after god after god just kept on coming as the conscious minds of these early beings began to expand. And today, religion is still being exploited by holding man at bay with a long gone primitive time from our pasts which is slowly loosing relevance as evolution continues to pave it's path of gold.

After all this time has lapsed, We have in-fact been already pre-programed for the future to come
and fear is not part of it.

Continued.

Religions will always for a time to come, but not as mankind's new stage of evolution, which some now are looking beyond the heavens and that's this transitional change period which many fail to observe while going through it.

In my humble opinion as man went from animal to human so to speak, now the new change from the religious old to the religious new where it be science or other, the expanding evolved conscious mind will now go on into the future and new paintings on the walls shall write our histories as we have seen them unfold right before our eyes.

But for the time being, we will all have to deal with what we have got, and what some of them as I know, do not like the winds of change.

TTM

CJ and Severin, I'm afraid I have to disagree with your idea of imposing or increasing a fee to climb the Rock, for the same reason I thought the 'alco pop' tax was a rort.
What we're saying here is that it's alright for rich folks to get pie eyed; everyone knows rich folk don't cause problems. It's only poor people we need to keep sober; they're just born trouble makers.
Poor people climb the rock? Heaven forfend! Leave that sort of thing to rich folk, who have 'earned' the right.
Personally I liked the girl's (obviously farcical) statement that it was actually an act of homage, since the tradition owners traditionally wore significantly less.
Exactly. She should be deported for wearing too much.
You want to restrict climbers on the Rock, and minimise damage? Make it obligatory for all climbers to wear 'traditional dress'.

Grim

>> You want to restrict climbers on the Rock, and minimise damage? Make it obligatory for all climbers to wear 'traditional dress'. <<

I take your point, a most excellent one. Why indeed should the Uluru experience just be for the wealthy? Short of conducting an income test on would be tourists, I'm not sure how the Unungu people can make a quid out of it.

Strip before you climb.

Excellent solution.

She’s stripping on the Rock
What an almighty sight to see
And I’m wishing I had been there
To see the French beautee

In her teeny bikeenee

(apologies to John Williamson)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IcgPdppG_k

Ahh yes, there should be much more of that sort of thing. Young women in bikinis, out in the desert, in our national parks and all over the place at tourist destinations. Now THAT would definitely improve my holiday experience!! ( :>)

Afterall, this is Australia, not Westminster Abbey or Mecca!

Was it disrespectful to the traditional owners? Not at all.

I think that it was disingenuous for them to suggest that it was, and a bit of a sloppy and very transparent excuse for them to have another whinge about closing the climb.