So its all right to accept that we now live in a country where an ALP Prime Minister can be removed from office at any time on the say so of non elected union officials and party factions, on the strength of internal polls that we never get to see, just because the non elected unionists and party factions tell us he or she has to go?

This is democratic?

Don't forget: many of those Caucus members swear they knew nothing was happening until hours before it went down.

So who orchestrated the dumping if the elected members didn't?

Yes BR, it is alright because despite the sh@tty way it went down it went down in such a way that the framework of our democracy (the constitution) was not compromised. If you don't like the way it went down don't vote for the brand next election. Also, write a letter to your local ALP candidate voicing your concerns. But please don't engage in silly non-debates about whether this was an attack on democracy because it wasn't, not according to the framework upon which our democracy is built - the constitution.

And, I forgot to add, seeing as the Constitution permits circumstances such as these, then we're overdue for Constitutional change.

But don't hold out any hope for that while the non elected unionists and the party factions run the country via their front people: the elected ALP.

Nothing could be further from their interests.

If democracy has any advantage over other systems at all -- and it does -- it is that it gives us an opportunity to correct our mistakes. The majority of the Australian electorate has decided -- rightly or wrongly -- that Rudd was a mistake, and so rather than lose the next election Labor decided to replace him with someone more popular. That's the way it works, people. If they hadn't fixed their mistake now we would have fixed it for them in a few months' time.

Maybe we got it wrong. If it turns out that way then hopefully we'll learn, and not get it wrong the same way next time. Maybe one day we will learn to vote for a party that has rational policies rather than attractive personalities. This event might speed up that process.

But to blast the elected government for doing exactly what it is supposed to do -- obey the will of the people -- is a direct attack on democracy itself.

It wasn't "the will of the people", that's the whole point. It was the will of unelected unionists and party factions who made the decision to get rid of Rudd based on information they have not made available to "the people."

The last Newspoll before Rudd got chucked out showed the ALP would win the election. That poll is a sample of what "the people" think.

But the unionists and the party factions decided to disregard how "the people" said they would vote because they wanted Kevin out.If they didn't chuck him out now, they'd hardly be able to do it if he was re-elected this year, now would they?

This is nothing to do with "the people." The only interest this lot have in "the people" is keeping us just satisfied enough to keep them in power.

And has anybody wondered how much the mining industry had to do with chucking out the PM? It will be interesting to see what concessions Julia makes

*The reality is that people vote for a Prime Minister. They vote for the leader of the Labor party or the Liberal party.*

Not so Clownfish. People vote for all sorts of reasons. I know
plenty who have voted liberal, who did not even like Howard.
A Govt is about more then one leader.

Elected members of Caucus marched Rudd out of office, for very
good reasons IMHO.